The nature and destiny of man

It is not surprising that most people in Christendom believe that they have an immortal soul residing within them and that “it will never die” – which is the meaning of the term “immortal.” This is a longstanding “tradition” in most church bodies; Roman Catholic, Protestantism, Baptist, Methodists, Lutherans, Evangelicals, etc. Jesus started His Church with inspired men setting it up and teaching its beliefs. But nowhere did they teach that man has an immortal soul residing within one’s body. As time progressed, un-inspired men introduced the pagan idea of an “entity” residing within one’s body that will never die, and they called it a “soul.” The origin of this teaching started around 400 BC, and by the time Jesus was born it had gained an entrance into the thoughts of Jews. But to the rest of the world, it gained the upper hand; most citizens of the Roman Empire had accepted it as an infallible belief. This belief today has become a “tradition” that is thought to be a teaching of Jesus and His apostles.

In this post you will read why many regard this traditionalist belief of an “immortal soul” to be against the nature of man as taught in the Bible, just as we also do with respect to the ultimate destiny of the unredeemed. Most churches teach what is commonly referred to these days as the Traditionalist position, whereas my views are more in line with what is called the Conditionalist perspective. The Traditionalist position promotes the idea that men inherently possess immortality, in the form of an immortal soul, which will immediately enter a Hadean realm at the moment of physical death. These conscious souls will then either experience happiness in a Paradise or horror in a place of fiery torment. At the return of Christ (Parousia) these souls will be placed back into their resurrected bodies and a judgment will occur. The redeemed will be with the Lord forever, and the unredeemed will be tortured in Hell without end. This is somewhat simplified, but true nonetheless.

The Conditionalist position, on the other hand, maintains that the biblical view of the nature of man is holistic in nature. Man does not possess a soul; man is a living soul (Genesis 2:7). Man, by nature, is mortal, but unto the redeemed a promise of immortality has been given. Thus, immortality is conditional, not the inherent right of all men. This immortal life is in the Lord Jesus Christ. At physical death both the unredeemed and the redeemed sleep in the dust of the ground waiting for the day of resurrection. On that day they shall be called forth from their graves. The redeemed dead shall be lifted up to meet the Lord in the air, and removed to a place of safety while God's fiery judgment rains down upon this earth and its wicked inhabitants (2 Peter 3:7 ff). The unredeemed will not be given immortality, but will be consumed by the outpouring of God's fiery wrath, for our God is a consuming fire. They will be utterly destroyed; exterminated. The redeemed, however, will "put on immortality" (1 Corinthians 15:52 ff) and will then dwell in the new heavens and earth with their God.

Thus, immortal life is a GIFT from God which will be bestowed only upon those who "seek for ... immortality" (Romans 2:7), and not upon all men indiscriminately. We are informed that Jesus Christ "brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" (2 Timothy 1:10). I find no place in Scripture where eternal (immortal) LIFE is promised to those who have spurned God Almighty; rather, their fate is consistently declared to be DEATH. "The wages of sin is DEATH, but the free GIFT of God is eternal LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

Had Christ not been raised victoriously over sin and death on the third day, then ALL men (even those who have died "in Him") would "have perished" (1 Corinthians 15:18). However, HIS victory at His resurrection assures us of OUR victory at our resurrection on the last day. This is clearly why the early disciples are characterized as going about "preaching Jesus and the resurrection" (Acts 17:18). They proclaimed not just His resurrection, but also ours. The ultimate hope of the Christian for eternal life is NOT in some ghost-like entity which is trapped inside our mortal bodies and which flies off to greater life at the moment of our physical demise (this is the teaching of paganism and can be substantiated by historical writings), rather the hope of the Christian is in the resurrection from the dead. The “immortal soul” teaching embraced by Traditionalism actually undermines the very foundation of the Christian faith, and makes the resurrection an unnecessary absurdity.

When God breathed the "breath of life" into our mortal dust-of-the-earth bodies we BECAME "living beings/souls" (Genesis 2:7). This in no way teaches that God put some "immortal spirit being" inside this physical body. After all, the same exact words are used of all the other life-forms on the planet ... bug, bird, bull and beast. God breathed the breath of life into animals also, according to Scripture, and they too became "living beings/souls." Indeed, the phrase "living soul" is used many times more often in Scripture of the other creatures than of man. Again, the biblical view of the nature of man is what is called holistic. The view of Traditionalists, however, is pagan dualism. This latter view comes more from Plato than from God, a fact to which Traditionalists seems woefully oblivious.

With regard to the two great eternal destinies of man, notice just a couple of key passages. "God has GIVEN us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life" (1 John 5:11-12). Our everlasting life — our immortality — is fully conditional. It hinges upon being IN CHRIST JESUS. The apostle John says that IF we have the Son, THEN we have the life. IF we do NOT have the Son, then we do NOT have the life! Traditionalists, however, declares the lie of Satan, rather than the Truth of God: Traditionalists say you DO have the life! God can't take life from you. You are just as immortal as HE is, even though Paul declares that He "ALONE possesses immortality" (1 Timothy 6:16). Thus, Traditionalists teach that the unredeemed will have eternal life just as the righteous will have eternal life. BOTH will live forever!! — or so says the Traditionalist.

The Traditionalists, to prove their false doctrine, must literally reinterpret and redefine clear biblical terms. They will declare of the unredeemed, "Of course they still have life! It's just life away from God's presence; it's life in misery; it's life in torment — but it is LIFE nevertheless!" Traditionalists, therefore, declares that death is really an illusion, and that the person is actually more alive when dead. The Traditionalists redefine "death" to mean "life." It is characterized as a "life of loss" (rather than loss of life), but it is LIFE just the same (a fact they can't seem to comprehend). Traditionalists declares that man is INCAPABLE of ever truly experiencing loss of life. We CAN'T fully die. Why? Because we are just as immortal as God. Life is our inherent right, and we WILL live ... either with or without Him. What arrogance!

That certainly does sound a lot like the original lie of Satan to Eve, doesn't it? "You surely shall NOT die!" (Genesis 3:4). Then the crafty serpent said to her, "You will be like God!" In actuality, Traditionalists are spreading the same false doctrine today (the "gospel of the serpent") when they uphold their unscriptural dogma.

Remember the passage which some have called “the golden verse" or the gospel in a nutshell": John 3:16? "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him should NOT PERISH, but have eternal LIFE." Notice the statement which immediately precedes this: "...whosoever believes may IN HIM have eternal life" (vs. 15). Eternal life (immortality) is ONLY "in Him." That is conditional immortality. Those who do NOT accept the Lord Jesus Christ must receive the "wages" of their decision — DEATH. "For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the free gift of God is eternal LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

What is the ultimate destiny of those who die "in Christ" and sleep in the dust of the ground? They will be called forth from the grave and will "put on immortality." They will then dwell forever in the new heavens and earth. What is the ultimate destiny of those who die outside of Christ? They too will be called forth from the dust of the ground to experience judgment and their sentence. Their fate will be the "second death." They will be executed. It will be an everlasting death; one from which there is no coming back; no future resurrection to life. Once they are dead, they are dead forever!

Traditionalists love to quote Matthew 25:46: "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." What IS that punishment? It is DEATH! The apostle Paul tells us about it in II Thessalonians 1:6–10. The unredeemed “…will pay the PENALTY, eternal destruction…” And, yes, it will be just as enduring as the reward for the righteous. Both will be forever! For just as long as the redeemed are ALIVE, so will the unredeemed be DEAD. God does not sentence the wicked to a never-ending process of dying (as Traditionalists would have you assume from this passage in Mt. 25). If that was so, then the eternal punishment would be an eternal punishing; it would be DYING, not DEATH. The latter is a result, the former a process. The punishment specified in Scripture is DEATH. That result WILL be achieved. In the Traditionalists view, however, it never will be. Thus, Traditionalists have had to basically rewrite God's Word in order to teach their pagan doctrine of everlasting LIFE for the unredeemed.

I’ve been told that by preaching such things as this article does, that I am endangering my faith and salvation by God. The person that told me this was a Roman Catholic clergyman, and he may have had in mind the decree of condemnation hurled at Luther by Pope Leo X who issued a decree which condemned “all those who assert that the soul is mortal…” 140 years ago (1868), Henry Constable responded to a similar Traditionalist statement that he was imperiling his faith. He wrote: “Does it imperial our faith in God? What attribute of his is attacked? His love! Is it the part of love to inflict eternal pain if it can be helped? His mercy! Is it the part of mercy never to be satisfied with the misery of others? His holiness! Is it essential to holiness to keep evil forever in existence? His justice! Can justice only be satisfied with everlasting agonies? No; we do not endanger faith. We strengthen it, by allying it once more with the divine principles of mercy, equity, and justice. It is the Augustinian theory which endangers faith, and has made shipwreck of faith in the case of multitudes, by representing God as a Being of boundless injustice, caprice, and cruelty.” (The Duration and Nature of Future Punishment, page 236.)

I will conclude this article with the concluding remarks of a brother in Christ: Edward Fudge. He brought his lengthy study of this issue to a close, in his internationally acclaimed book, The Fire That Consumes, with these thoughts, which I agree with:

“We do not reject the traditionalist doctrine, therefore, on moral, philosophical, intuitive, judicial or emotional grounds, nor are we much concerned with the arguments of any who do. The only question that matters here is the teaching of Scripture. Does the Word of God teach the eternal conscious torment of the lost? Our modest study fails to show that it does.

We were reared on the traditionalist view -- we accepted it because it was said to rest on the Bible. This closer investigation of the Scriptures indicates that we were mistaken in that assumption. A careful look discovers that both Old and New Testaments teach instead a resurrection of the wicked for the purpose of divine judgment, the fearful anticipation of a consuming fire, irrevocable expulsion from God's presence into a place where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth, such conscious suffering as the divine justice individually requires -- and, finally, the total, everlasting extinction of the wicked with no hope of resurrection, restoration or recovery. Now we stand on that, on the authority of the Word of God.

We have changed once and do not mind changing again, but we were evidently wrong once through lack of careful study and do not wish to repeat the same mistake. Mere assertions and denunciations will not refute the evidence presented in this book, nor will a recital of ecclesiastical tradition. This case rests finally on Scripture. Only Scripture can prove it wrong” (Page 435–436).

If no one really KNOWS, how can someone KNOW more than another?

Research and conclusions are just that, not proof. Why should someone change their beliefs just because of another persons research and conclusions, even if they hven’t done their own research? Perhaps their beliefs are self-evident, and need no research.>/i>

It's just as I said. While research enforces what one belives, those who don't do research for themselves are not privy to all that is said on any one or more topics found in the Scriptures. And in that respect, do not "know" what or as much as the other person does. Self-evident beliefs are suspect in my humble opinion. Faith doesn't come to anyone without reading or hearing what others have to say (see Romans, chapter ten - "faith come by hearing").

In one respect, you are correct that "research" is "not proof." It is what one gets out of research and how it is harmonized with the totality of Scripture that research makes one more knowledgeable than another. Does that help you?

What would they disagree with?

We are created as eternal beings. Our soul will live forever. The question is where will we live? The answer depends on our choice.

Since the beginning of our existance we are spiritual beings physically dependent on our creator for our being and sustenance. GOD provides us with sun shine and rain, wind and frost, food and shelter. WE broke that relationship when WE decided that WE could provide for ourselves better than GOD could and that started our downward spiral to destruction.

WE try to live independent of GOD and act like HE is not concerned with our small life as HE has to run the entire universe and keep things in order.

That idea comes from our not understanding who GOD is and not wanting to, because if we understood who GOD is then we would be responsible for our actions toward HIM and our fellow men. (men and women) Which puts our motives and actions in the light of who GOD is and what HE has told us about HIMSELF and us, and what HE expects of us in our actions here and now.

The result of our self willed disobedence is separation from a loving and HOLY GOD and out from under HIS protection. It placed us in a situation we were never ment to be in. BUT GOD foreknew that we would do this and JESUS had agreed to take our punishment on HIMSELF before Adam was ever created or drew his first breath.

Isn’t GOD wonderful! :)

I said: "I take it that you might believe that whatever the "punishment" is it is not to an "immortal" body, is that correct?"

The punishment is eternal (Matt 25:46). I won't waste time arguing whether they have a physical body when that happens or not. I just know the individual is not extinguished from existence.

Hmmm...apparently you don't believe what Jesus said in John 5:28-29. Both the redeemed and unredeemed are "bodily" raised from the dead...the unredeemed to face judgment. Then in Rev. 20:11-15 we read of the "judgment." Those not found written in the "Book of Life" - the unredeemed - are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death. Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the sentence that the unredeemed face, and that is death! Now, if "death" doesn't means what it means when person dies the first time here on earth, then what do you think it means when spoken of as "the second death?"

Eternal, as I am led to believe you take as "everlasing," would apply to the time period that the "death" of those who are thrown into the lake of fire lasts - a death that lasts the same length of time as those who have "immortal" life. Death is the opposite of Life, anyway you care to put it. This is how it is meant today, and how it is meant in the Scriptures. Death means the extinction of life. Or don't you believe that?

Hades could be called "gravedom," the respository of all the dead, corporately. According to what I see the Bible saying, is is a "place," figuratively or literally. It is used interchangeably with the "grave." No indication is given that it is a place of "torment, torture, or punishment." Those who go to "it" are as if they are extinct.

You are teaching annihilationism, which is false. If death were to mean ceasing to exist, you then have to explain how Jesus would use a false, misleading example such as the following to illustrate a point:

Luke 16
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,^[c] [Hades] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Footnotes:

Luke 16:6 Greek one hundred batous (probably about 3 kiloliters)
Luke 16:7 Greek one hundred korous (probably about 35 kiloliters)
Luke 16:23 Greek Hades

You will say, oh that's a parable; it's not to be taken literally. To which I say, that doesn't help your case. It would be as absurd as Jesus saying that the Kingdom of Heaven is like a pebble that a man planted in the ground and it grew up to be the greatest of all herbs.

I don't buy it.

There are many other Scriptures that bear on the subject, including those which use the word, "spirit", many of which indicate that man does not cease to exist when his body dies.

Passages such as 2 Corinthians 5 compare our bodies to a tent, a temporary dwelling, in which we live:

1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Paul says in Philippians 1:

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

There is also what Jesus said to the thief on the cross, which would make no sense if the thief were going to cease to exist at his death:

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

It cannot be rationally maintained that a person who has purportedly ceased to exist could be either "in torment", or "in Paradise", in the state of physical death as the Scripture explicitly teaches that men are.

Cordially,

That does not change the fact that these things are true.

That people fight so hard against these truths, many their entire life, should give us pause and wonder why someone would fight so hard against something that is “false or not true” spending great amounts of time and energy to try to disprove what we know in our hearts is true.

As far as us having an eternal spirit, what do you do with Rev. 19:20 & 20:10?

Rev. 20:10 uses a present tense verb “are” (where the beast and false prophet are) meaning they are very much alive, still in torment over 1000 years after being cast alive into the lake of fire? Then go to Rev. 20:15 where those whose name is not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Jesus left us no doubt that we are eternal beings. Those in rebellion against HIM and HIS WORD do not believe and can not understand things of the spirit. Which takes us back to the beginning of our trouble. Rebellion against GOD and JESUS. Thats why JESUS had to come and die for us, to fix what we broke.

Hmmm...apparently you don't believe what Jesus said in John 5:28-29. Both the redeemed and unredeemed are "bodily" raised from the dead.

:::sigh::: Go back and actually read what I typed. I simply said I wouldn't waste time arguing whether their eternal punishment was with them in bodily form. I didn't say a thing about whether or not the unrepentent were resurrected.

Those not found written in the "Book of Life" - the unredeemed - are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death.

Yes, eternal separation from the love and goodness of God. All they will see of Him for eternity is His wrath. (Death doesn't mean ceasing to exist, even in the physical sense, since as you have already pointed out, there is a resurrection.)

Eternal, as I am led to believe you take as "everlasing," would apply to the time period that the "death" of those who are thrown into the lake of fire lasts.

You can certainly believe that if you wish. I don't. As Revelation 20:10 states "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Clearly, the lake of fire is not a place where individuals cease to exist, or they couldn't be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I’m sorry - I mis-read what you said about eon and eonian and eternal and eternity. You are right.

I plan to post some additional ideas later on today. In the meantime, let me just say that it is my considered humble opinion that death is definitely not a blessing. It is a punishment as God stated. Plus, when our Lord Jesus Christ sent forth the 12 disciples in Mat. 10:8 and told them to raise the dead, etc., if death is such a blessed thing, who would want to be delivered from it? Death, being the companion of sin, is placed into the same category as sickness, leprosy and demons. Doesn’t sound like a blessing to me at all. In 1Cor 15 Paul said death is an enemy to be destroyed. If I am going to be ushered into the presence of God, I expect it will be with my friend, Jesus, and not my enemy, death. Jesus is the life. I prefer Jesus.

Let me drop my “bombshell” as an indication of what I am working on for my next book. The truth of the kingdom of God has been lost because the truth of the second coming of Christ has been superimposed upon it. These are two separate distinct periods of divine activity, the coming kingdom of God, followed by the second coming which results in the “Parousia” of Jesus Christ.

I’m sorry - I mis-read what you said about eon and eonian and eternal and eternity. You are right.

No need to apologize. I feel that many haven't really comprehended what I wrote. The context of verses and passages are not considered by most people in these short posts. Speaking of "eternal and eternity," most people, every time they see that term used in the Scriptures immediately think of "without end." They can't imagine it being anything but that..but, we have to understand, they were taught that all their lives, and find it hard to realize that it doesn't actually mean what they think it means. Those Latin terms first appeared in the Scriptures when Jerome used them in place of "aion and aionios." Even the "Old Latin" translations before Jerome didn't use it (and they will not accept the idea of an earlier version of the Scripture written in Latin as quoted by Tertullian).

I plan to post some additional ideas later on today.

I'll look forward to that.

In 1Cor 15 Paul said death is an enemy to be destroyed. If I am going to be ushered into the presence of God, I expect it will be with my friend, Jesus, and not my enemy, death. Jesus is the life. I prefer Jesus.

Well said. Death is to be destroyed, just as recorded in Rev. 20:14. When individuals (and churches) say that those thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death, and then deny that death is the ceasation of life, I wonder what they make of the statement that death itself is going to be destroyed? And if death itself is going to be destroyed in the lake of fire, what death will those thrown into the same place be? Will it be a "living death" that goes on forever, or will it be their execution? Not a single person so far has been able to explain to me what the punishment of the unredeemed is going to be, and then back that up with what Jesus and His apostles say. It's very frustrating, to say the least. BTW, I'm not making up that phrase "living death," I hear it all the time from those who deny death is death when it comes to judgment day; In fact, most funeral services speak in tones that the deceased is not really dead - that the deceased is NOW in heaven with Jesus! I just can't go along with that kind of mentality - it is anti-biblical.

Let me drop my “bombshell” as an indication of what I am working on for my next book.

Sounds interesting....keep us advised.

Do you really want me to expound on Luke 16:19-31 and Luke 23:39-43, especially with the tenor of your post?

Feel free. Knock yourself out. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the "tenor" of my post.

Hmm...now it's not just an "immortal soul" being talked about but also an "immortal spirit."

Now sure what you mean by "...now". I've only posted one post to you prior to this one. I will say that that your phrase, "immortal spirit" is a category error. Scripture NEVER modifies the word "spirit" with mortality or 'immortal' the way you just did. A spirit is never once said to die in Scripture. So your "immortal spirit" is a straw man.

You might want to comment on the following ways the word "spirit" is used in Scripture:

Easton’s Bible Dictionary

Spirit: (Heb. ruah; Gr. pneuma), properly wind or breath. In 2 Thessalonians 2:8 it means "breath," and in Ecclesiastes 8:8 the vital principle in man. It also denotes the rational, immortal soul by which man is distinguished (Acts 7:59; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 6:20; 7:34), and the soul in its separate state (Hebrews 12:23), and hence also an apparition (Job 4:15; Luke 24:37,39), an angel (Hebrews 1:14), and a demon (Luke 4:36; 10:20). This word is used also metaphorically as denoting a tendency (Zechariah 12:10; Luke 13:11).
In Romans 1:4,1 Tim. 3:16,2 Cor. 3:17,1 Pet. 3:18, it designates the divine nature.

If you don't like that dictionary pick any reputable lexicon you want and expound to your heart's content.

Cordially,

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