Mormons, Scientologists face uphill battle against Wikileaks

arstechnica.com ^ | May 14, 2008 | Nate Anderson

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Can Mormon women wear pants when visiting a temple? Can men wear cummerbunds during a marriage ceremony? Are vasectomies an appropriate birth control option? The answers to these (no, no, and not really) and similar questions about Mormon practice and leadership might not seem to be especially secret, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't pleased about secret church documents hitting the Internet.

In this case, the cause of the displeasure is the confidential Church Handbook of Instructions, published by Wikileaks on April 16. The church is currently trying to get the information pulled down using copyright infringement notices, but Wikileaks doesn't respond to such requests. The church has turned instead to targeting other sites that host or link the handbook.

Scribd, a sort of "YouTube for documents," has already taken down a copy of the material after receiving a copyright infringement notice from the Intellectual Property Division of the Church (who knew churches had such divisions?). The church has also gone after the Wikimedia Foundation, the group that oversees Wikipedia and Wikinews (it has no connection to Wikileaks). What's interesting about the takedown request is that the Wikimedia Foundation did not actually host or even cite the material in question; a Wikinews article published on April 19 simply mentioned the existence of the handbooks at Wikileaks and provided a link to it. In response, Wikimedia also received a copyright infringement notice from Intellectual Reserve, the church's IP division. The link was subsequently removed.

[AppyPappy]

Religious systems are based around our desire to bribe God with our goodness. We never bother to think about the insult to God that results.

Our behavior is a natural result of the work of the Holy Spirit. If you have to work at it, that’s a symptom of a bigger problem.

I taught Romans 10:1-3 this Sunday. Ironically, only two students showed up.

Rom 10:1-3 MKJV
(1) Brothers, truly my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is for it to be saved.
(2) For I bear record to them that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For they, being ignorant of God’s righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

Rom 10:1-3 MSG
(1) Believe me, friends, all I want for Israel is what’s best for Israel: salvation, nothing less. I want it with all my heart and pray to God for it all the time.
(2) I readily admit that the Jews are impressively energetic regarding God—but they are doing everything exactly backwards.
(3) They don’t seem to realize that this comprehensive setting-things-right that is salvation is God’s business, and a most flourishing business it is. Right across the street they set up their own salvation shops and noisily hawk their wares. After all these years of refusing to really deal with God on his terms, insisting instead on making their own deals, they have nothing to show for it.

[colorcountry]

This is an interesting paragraph:

Murder

As used here, murder refers to the deliberate and unjustified taking of human life. It requires excommunication. Abortion is not defined as murder for this purpose. If death was caused by carelessness or by defense of self or others, or if mitigating circumstances prevail (such as deficient mental capacity or wartime conditions), the taking of a human life might not be defined as murder. Bishops refer questions on specific cases to the stake president. He may direct questions to the Office of the First Presidency if necessary

(Emphasis added, is mine)

[colorcountry]

Good point.

It often comes back to “works” and people who think they must “earn” their reward.

It is all in God’s hands. God saves us and places us in our circumstances to use as He sees fit. It is not our works that are necessary, but His.

[greyfoxx39]

Abortion is not defined as murder for this purpose.

More cognitive dissonance. Since members are commanded to provide earthly bodies for the trillions of spirit babies waiting in the premortal life, and that leads to such large mormon families, you would think abortion would be the gravest of sins.

This was a handy factoid for the Romney campaign in Massachusetts though.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Religion Moderator,

I point you toward THE BIBLE, where it says... [and I quote
word for word]...

1 Samuel 25:34 (King James Version)

“For in very deed, as the LORD God of Israel liveth, which hath kept me back from hurting thee, except thou hadst hasted and come to meet me, surely there had not been left unto Nabal by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.”

I substituted a more common word, used by every Mom and
dog owner, and pool owner in America - which no one
considers offensive, to my knowledge - but, if I have
offended you, I take full responsibility and apologize.

best,
ampu

[aMorePerfectUnion]

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Mormon_Church_Handbook_of_Instructions_%281999%29

[AppyPappy]

Paul take a harder stance and says that “self righteousness” is a sin. We attempt to take control from God. We create a salvation that doesn’t need God.

Jesus tried to teach this to His Disciples. “Unless you let me wash your feet, you can have no part in me”. Our religious systems are designed around the principle that we wash our own feet.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

That was a funny YouTube video.

Here’s one I like a lot about secret mormon magic underwear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU&feature=related

fascinating!

[wintertime]

Very cute.

One of my favorites is the YouTube of the Yeshiva boys singing.

[wintertime]

I attended a Mormon wedding reception. The groom wore a tux with a cummerbund. The bride looked lovely in her traditional wedding dress. Seemed pretty normal to me.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Scribd, a sort of "YouTube for documents," has already taken down a copy of the material after receiving a copyright infringement notice from the Intellectual Property Division of the Church (who knew churches had such divisions?).

I wonder what Jesus thinks of such things?

[Elsie]

The church has also gone after the Wikimedia Foundation...

Can FR be far behind??

[Elsie]

We Mormons are used to these attacks but the poor Scientologists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scientology is a newer religion than Mormonism...
	Don't make fun of them, they have a right to have their moronic beliefs respected.

[Elsie]

"We Mormons are used to these attacks"

I bet you are. And the laughter, don't for get the laughter.

 

 

Professor Robert Millet teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/

 

 

Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

 

Lighten up, FReeper.

 

Timeline:

1:34        It's behind us...

2:12        Don't worry about those little flicks of history...

---

---

It's behind us!

 

Don't worry!!

[Elsie]

As a former member of that, ummm, organization, I can assure you that scientology is quite accustomed to attacks (and vicious in its replies).

HMMmm... I wonder where they learned THAT??

[Elsie]

The Church probably doesn’t want people making fun of us. That’s all.

Uh... it's a bit TOO late for that! ;^)

[Elsie]

But I must be even-handed.

Hold this thought...

[Elsie]

Now YOU will be repremanded for repeating it! ;^)

[Elsie]

In the Presbyterian Church, they are posted in the bulletin.

HMmmm...

Maybe THAT is the UNTRUTH of PRESBYTERIANISM!!??