Posted on 05/16/2008 3:19:30 PM PDT by netmilsmom
Zero.
God-given.
The references are here on this thread...They were just discussed...I'd say your debate is not with me on the subject...Appears as tho the debate is with other Catholics who push that stuff and your church (catechism)...
My Italian boyfriend’s family was actually Episcopalian. His dad was Catholic and his mom protestant so they decided to go ‘halfway.’
INDEED. And we’d probably even like each other in person. LOL.
Ah, but prunes are so healthy for you. Catholics give as good as they get, IMHO. LOL.
Did you have any serious side effects with these drugs???
All families differ. I wish I had been brought up in a truly Christian home, but mom did make us go to church and I stayed with it. My siblings didn’t, to their sorrow. Two died from alcohol-related illnesses and cancer. Without Christ, how do any of us really survive??? God’s grace has certainly been sufficient for me.
Iscool:
The Church can’t send anyone to hell, only God judges the eternal destiny of man. The Church can excommunicate someone, but that is not related to sending someone to hell. An excommunication puts someone outside the Church, and thus since Catholics believe the Church is the normative instrument that Christ uses to sanctify and justify man, an individual who has been excommunicated has put their salvation in jeopardy. Even still, a person dies, only God knows the interior disposition of the person. I encourage you to read the CCC that I have linked which covers the questions you raised in detail. Read CCC 1033 in particular and also note that in CCC 1037, the Church continues to pray for the dead as while “we are limited by time, God is not” and thus God may use those prayers in ways only known to God to reconcile/bring back a prodigal son or daughter to Himself just before they expire.
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art12.htm
There were sometimes side effects. Tongue movements were the worst with Haldol, but as with any drug that works the harm is only secondary to the help.
Yes, we did monitor the side effects carefully. Most times, knowing that I had a background in Nutritional Science, my boss would look to me to find something for the side effects that our patients came up with. Vitamin E seemed to help.
So while side effects can be a concern for delusional patients, there are ways to overcome them. No problem at all!!
Please do. I am not a Catholic ‘hater.’
That's really funny. Because when I did use Google to find the verbatim excerpt from the catechism, Vatican.org popped right up as the first hit.
It looks like you went fishing to find some anti-Catholic site with which to tarnish my post. Your first reaction was to tell us all that the excerpt mustn't be true because it must have been from some anti-Catholic site, which you, of all people, linked to! lol.
The bottom line, however, amidst all this deflection, is that you as a Catholic challenged the words which I posted which were verbatim from the catechism of the Catholic church, via Vatican.org. Your post clearly exhibited skepticism that those exact words were part of the catechism.
As I said before, your skepticism with the actual words of the catechism is a very good sign.
Keep at it.
Of course. I was just trying to demolish the stereotype of the Italian family. They are very family-reputation-conscious and do not show to strangers what really is there. And it's not always pretty.
That's a proper noun, it should be the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
6 [God] will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(Rom 2)
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Compare this to:
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Do you notice anything odd here??? Does anything look different...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Can't you see what happened??? Between Roman 2 and Romans 3, Paul pulled a dispensational switcheroo on us...
YOU are quoting righteousness under the Law...And that is what your church is trying to abide with...
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
And that's the scripture you are quoting to me and your fellow Catholics...
I rejected that justification that's under the law...I took the free justification resulting from the death of Jesus...
Ah, ah, ah! There you go again, Sister in Christ, second guessing my motivation again....Hmmmm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the actual post to you. Post 169.
>>To: Dr. Eckleburg
>>For the Son of man became man so that we might become God. The only begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods<<
Unless you can provide a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not not the “Let Us Reason” website (which is all that came up on this quote) I would say it’s a lie.
The string I used is there in the link, so no FReeper can find any “motivation” in it.
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And let’s get this straight, you did NOT post VERBATIM from the Catechism. If you had, there would have been NUMBERS for footnotes. As you can see from your original post, My Sister in Christ, you did not post from the CCC because there are no numbers. SEE? Post 140
To: AnalogReigns; netmilsmom; Alex Murphy; Lord_Calvinus; Gamecock; OLD REGGIE; Uncle Chip; ...
Perhaps the answer is found in the RCC catechism itself...
“For the Son of man became man so that we might become God. The only begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.” (page 116, #460)
That right there tells us pretty much all we need to know about Rome. Rome believes the church turns men into gods by infusing righteousness into them and turning them into perfect creatures. Voila! A god.
Therefore perhaps it’s not such a stretch to believe Mary was “sinless” and Mary is the “co-redeemer” and a “pope is infallible” and a priest is “another Christ.”
Whereas the Bible instructs and the Reformation restated that all men are fallen and the only thing that saves anyone is Christ’s righteousness mercifully imputed to the believer by grace through faith.
So it’s probably easy for Rome to curse Protestants because Protestants are outside the RCC and do not believe they become a god in any way. Christ indwells us, but He remains always Christ and we remain always the creature, 100% guilty but 100% acquitted of our sins by Christ’s rightousness through His atoning work on the cross.
Our differences really seem profound some days.
140 posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 8:19:04 PM by Dr. Eckleburg
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Sorry, you did not post anything verbatim until you ACTUALLY went to the CCC and reposted. See your post 387,
To: netmilsmom; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; xzins; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; ...
~~”For the Son of man became man so that we might become God. The only begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods” (Catechism of the Roman Catholic religion #460)~~
Unless you can provide a link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and not not the “Let Us Reason” website (which is all that came up on this quote) I would say it’s a lie.
Now that is really fascinating. I am thrilled you are skeptical of that paragraph from your church’s catechism. It is dreadful, isn’t it?
But as you can see from subsequent Catholic posters’ comments, that is indeed Catholic dogma from the catechism.
And FYI, I did not post from the thread you linked to. I didn’t need to. You simply go to Google and insert a phrase or a number along with “catechism of the catholic religion” and you come up with sites such as this one straight from the Vatican which is the one I used...
Catechism of the Catholic Faith
(#460)
“460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.”79 “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.”80 “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.81”
See the numbers? THAT is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
So I’ll let others see for themselves....
Apparently you have never watched the Godfather...
>>Apparently you have never watched the Godfather...<<
Hollywood movies are make-believe.
Well I'm glad to hear that...But as I understand it, Annalex believes differently...Is that correct Annalex???
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