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To: annalex
Romans 4 explains the Catholic teaching that works done for reward or as a legal obligation are not salvific, and that especially, circumcision is not salvific. It does not teach salvation by faith alone. How can it? Just a few chapters before that, St. Paul said

6 [God] will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

(Rom 2)

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Compare this to:

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Do you notice anything odd here??? Does anything look different...

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Can't you see what happened??? Between Roman 2 and Romans 3, Paul pulled a dispensational switcheroo on us...

YOU are quoting righteousness under the Law...And that is what your church is trying to abide with...

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

And that's the scripture you are quoting to me and your fellow Catholics...

I rejected that justification that's under the law...I took the free justification resulting from the death of Jesus...

536 posted on 05/17/2008 6:12:37 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
I rejected that justification that's under the law...I took the free justification resulting from the death of Jesus...

Justification under the Jewish Law is what St. Paul teaches has been replaced under law of grace. It is true that the Christian law is different. But did it abolish the necessity of Good works? Not at all. In the Sermon on the Mount Christ explains the difference:

21 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. 22 But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Matthew 5)

The law is different: it is not formal, it now looks into the heart. But it is nevertheless law; violate it and there will be judgement and hellfire. This is what Jesus taught about His law and His judgement:

32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in ...

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink ...

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Whre is salvation by faith alone in this? We are expected good works and a judged by them.

I am aware, by the way, of Luther's idea that parts of Scripture relate to "law" and parts to "gospel" and that therefore we can ignore the scripture that is about "law". This is worthless garbage that he taught: it is a wholesale contradiction of one Holy Scripture our Lord gave us. If He wanted to give us half the Gospel, He would have given us half the Gospel, -- easier than walking on water and healing paralytics.

741 posted on 05/19/2008 7:35:02 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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