Posted on 05/14/2008 6:02:09 AM PDT by sevenbak
In the begining, God... Genesis 1:1
The Hebrew word for God is Elohim and is PLURAL
Jesus is the Word of God and was there in the begining...
Nothing was created that Jesus was not a part of...
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3
Can you show me anywhere in the Old or New testaments where they are one in substance?
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Jesus said
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
Check out We're Christians just like you! for a well annotated summary of a few of the differences between the LDS Jesus and the Christian Jesus.
RE: Book of Abraham ... here are the facts.
You can get the real facts from this Award Winning Documentary, or by clicking HERE, or HERE.
Yes: For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form... (Col. 2:9)
See also: "I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:31-33)
Re: the John passage, if Jesus was only referencing his oneness with the Father as it pertained to purpose, will & spirit, the Jews would not have been reaching for the stones. It wasn't blasphemy for the Jews to be "one" with the purposes & will of God, and the Spirit moving upon people like David in the OT wasn't a new concept, either.
The problem is that Mormons get locked into the Father having a body and that became Joseph Smith's colossal god that was "a strange god, anyhow" statement. That's not the way folks from 1800 to 2000 years ago comprehended "substance"--as only being "physical" oneness.
Examples:
Tertullian, 213 AD: “He commands them to baptize into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—not into a unipersonal God.” (3.623)
Origen specifically said it was "incorporeal" -- vs. corporeal: Origen, 225: “The ‘substance’ of the Trinity that is the beginning and cause of all things…is altogether incorporeal.” 4.376
Dionysius of Alexandria, 262: “Next, then, I may properly turn to those who divide and cut apart and destroy the Monarchy, the most sacred proclamation of the Church of God, making of it, as it were, three powers, distinct substances, and three godheads.” (Letters of Dionysius to Bishp Dionysius of Alexandria 1:1)
Gregory, the wonder-worker: “We therefore acknowledge one true God, the one First Cause, and one Son, very God of very God, possessing of nature the Father’s divinity,—that is to say, being the same in substance with the Father; and one Holy Spirit, who by nature and in truth sanctifies all…as being of the substance of God. Those who speak either of the Son or of the Holy Spirit as a creature we anathematize”
Methodius, 305 AD: “For the kingdom of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is one, even as their substance is one and their dominion one. Whence also, with one and the same adoration, we worship the one Deity in three Persons, subsisting without beginning, uncreated, without end, and to which there is no successor. For neither will the Father ever cease to be the Father, nor again the Son to be the Son and King, nor the Holy Ghost to be what in substance and personality He is. For nothing of the Trinity will suffer diminution, either in respect of eternity, or of communion, or of sovereignty.” (Oration on the Psalms 5)
John 20:28 (King James Version)
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
O.B. Huntington:
The inspiration of God caused men to hunt for a new continent until Columbus discovered it. Men have lost millions of dollars, and hundreds of lives to find a country beyond the North Pole; and they will yet find that country -- a warm, fruitful country, and inhabited by the ten tribes of Israel, a country divided by a river on one side of which lives the half tribe of Manasseh, which is more numerous than all the others. So said the Prophet. At the same time, he described the shape of the earth at the poles as being a rounded elongation and drew a diagram in this form; (see graphic at link) which any one can readily see will allow the sun's rays to fall so near perpendicular to the center that part of the earth may be warmed and made fruitful. He quoted scripture and proof of his theory which says that "the earth flieth upon its wings in the midst of the creations of God," and said that there was a semblance in the form of the earth that gave rise to the saying.
Isaiah 43:11: “’I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.’”
Titus 2:10: “and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.”
Titus 3:4: “But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,” in regard with:
Luke 2:11: “’Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.’”
Acts 20:28: “’the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.’”
Titus 2:13: “while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,”
John 4:42: “They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man [Jesus] really is the Savior of the world.’”
Titus 3:6: “whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,”
and the score goes to tenn nan - excellent verse
YHEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS
:)
I don’t know what you mean.
Can you show me anywhere in the Old or New testaments where they are one in substance?
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form... (Col. 2:9)
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Good verse
:)
Down toward the bottom of the initial Vanity post, Grig writes:
Recently some of us have decided to take a more proactive approach. Rather than try to wrestle the pig into taking a bath, we are just going to hose it down. We will actively define our faith here rather than just respond to accusations.
Hence, this is why we are getting all of these LDS threads.
“Is this post more of the “hosing” that Grig promised us last week?”
Sevenbak posted to me that he agreed with Grig’s statement, so I’d presume so.
Ok, I understand. The heart of my faith is Jesus Christ and who He is. If Mormans and I can’t agree on that then we have nothing else religiously in common either.
Why is it that the people who study the Bible come up with different answers to the question of the number of persons in the God Head?
and
Why are your thoughts better then the others?
The Hebrew word for God is Elohim and is PLURAL
++++++++++
What is your idea about what the beginning was the beginning of?
and
What happened before the “beginning”?
examples of differences???
Our GOD has only ONE physical body!
Why is it that the people who study the Bible come up with different answers to the question of the number of persons in the God Head?
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There is no verse in the Bible listing the number of persons in the Godhead ...
However Christians accept the verse...
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
as the Trinity..
In the begining, God... Genesis 1:1
The Hebrew word for God is Elohim and is PLURAL
++++++++++
What is your idea about what the beginning was the beginning of?
and
What happened before the “beginning”?
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God said this to Moses who wrote the words down...
In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth Genesis 1:1
Before the beginning...
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep Genesis 1:2a
John continued the same theme when he said..
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:1-5
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