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To: sevenbak; DManA
Can you show me anywhere in the Old or New testaments where they are one in substance?

Yes: For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form... (Col. 2:9)

See also: "I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:31-33)

Re: the John passage, if Jesus was only referencing his oneness with the Father as it pertained to purpose, will & spirit, the Jews would not have been reaching for the stones. It wasn't blasphemy for the Jews to be "one" with the purposes & will of God, and the Spirit moving upon people like David in the OT wasn't a new concept, either.

The problem is that Mormons get locked into the Father having a body and that became Joseph Smith's colossal god that was "a strange god, anyhow" statement. That's not the way folks from 1800 to 2000 years ago comprehended "substance"--as only being "physical" oneness.

Examples:

Tertullian, 213 AD: “He commands them to baptize into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—not into a unipersonal God.” (3.623)

Origen specifically said it was "incorporeal" -- vs. corporeal: Origen, 225: “The ‘substance’ of the Trinity that is the beginning and cause of all things…is altogether incorporeal.” 4.376

Dionysius of Alexandria, 262: “Next, then, I may properly turn to those who divide and cut apart and destroy the Monarchy, the most sacred proclamation of the Church of God, making of it, as it were, three powers, distinct substances, and three godheads.” (Letters of Dionysius to Bishp Dionysius of Alexandria 1:1)

Gregory, the wonder-worker: “We therefore acknowledge one true God, the one First Cause, and one Son, very God of very God, possessing of nature the Father’s divinity,—that is to say, being the same in substance with the Father; and one Holy Spirit, who by nature and in truth sanctifies all…as being of the substance of God. Those who speak either of the Son or of the Holy Spirit as a creature we anathematize”

Methodius, 305 AD: “For the kingdom of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is one, even as their substance is one and their dominion one. Whence also, with one and the same adoration, we worship the one Deity in three Persons, subsisting without beginning, uncreated, without end, and to which there is no successor. For neither will the Father ever cease to be the Father, nor again the Son to be the Son and King, nor the Holy Ghost to be what in substance and personality He is. For nothing of the Trinity will suffer diminution, either in respect of eternity, or of communion, or of sovereignty.” (Oration on the Psalms 5)

25 posted on 05/14/2008 8:04:51 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Can you show me anywhere in the Old or New testaments where they are one in substance?

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form... (Col. 2:9)
__________________________________________

Good verse

:)


32 posted on 05/14/2008 9:00:59 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form... (Col. 2:9)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
First off, I am using the KJV, it does make a difference.

“’For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.’

Not bodily form.

This is the closest anyone has gotten to actually show scripturally the doctrine of “one in substance”.

Still no sale. I know some here have interpreted this passage to mean that the Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Ghost—are the same person, or three persons in one. However, Paul here is anxious to combat the heretical notion that Christ was not a physical being and that his bodily suffering, death, and resurrection were only fictional. In countering this, and in order to emphasize the supremacy of the Savior above man and angels, Paul teaches that the fullness of the Godhead’s glory, honor, and power is in Christ physically, or bodily—that is, nothing is lacking in the Savior that requires man to seek some other source or means of salvation.

Further, if they are “one in substance” then what happened to Christ's body after he was resurrected. If “God is a spirit, without body parts or passions”, and nothing else (we are all spirits BTW) then where is His body now. Why did he discard it after he left his disciples? He told his disciples he would come in like manner as they saw him leave. He didn't throw away his body. He was resurrected and remains so, as a Testament of His sacrifice for all men.

49 posted on 05/14/2008 4:49:35 PM PDT by sevenbak (1 Corinthians 2:14)
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