Posted on 05/09/2008 11:37:51 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
Astronomers and philosophers have, from time almost immemorial until very recently, asserted that the moon was uninhabited, that it had no atmosphere etc.. But recent discoveries, through the means of powerful telescopes, have given scientists a doubt or two upon the old theory.
Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half-century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.
As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years.
He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.
In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes.
The first two promises have been fulfilled, and the latter may be verified.
From the verification of two promises we may reasonably expect the third to be fulfilled also.
__________________________
One truth after another men are finding out by the wisdom and inspiration given of God to them.
The inspiration of God caused men to hunt for a new continent until Columbus discovered it. Men have lost millions of dollars, and hundreds of lives to find a country beyond the North Pole; and they will yet find that country -- a warm, fruitful country, and inhabited by the ten tribes of Israel, a country divided by a river on one side of which lives the half tribe of Manasseh, which is more numerous than all the others. So said the Prophet. At the same time, he described the shape of the earth at the poles as being a rounded elongation and drew a diagram in this form; (see graphic at link) which any one can readily see will allow the sun's rays to fall so near perpendicular to the center that part of the earth may be warmed and made fruitful. He quoted scripture and proof of his theory which says that "the earth flieth upon its wings in the midst of the creations of God," and said that there was a semblance in the form of the earth that gave rise to the saying.
Cedar Fort, Utah, February 6, 1892
I don't get it? Just because someone else treats a Christian rudely we are to react the same way? My point was that Paul and his followers didn't engage in the type of behavior seen on this thread when he was in Athens.
Thanks for your considerate reply.
Again, I’m no religious expert by a longshot. And I’m all in favor of helping those in darkness, and applaud your motive.
I’d characterize statements such as the “astronauts in Death Valley” analogy as defensiveness, which I guess is a natural enough reaction to such a challenge as is being presented.
I would only suggest that we should find areas of agreement. But then again, if I knew how to encourage ecumenism, I’d write a book.
You're once again confusing the behavior shown here with defending or disputing doctrine. There was precious little of that occurring on this thread.
Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Paul goes to Athens. I'm assuming it's like you going to Salt Lake City.
Act 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
Did Paul post public information about greek Gods and then chortle, snicker, laugh, and call others over to do so? No, he didn't even address it. He focused on those who believed more closely.
Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoics, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
Act 17:19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
Paul didn't even attempt to persuade them until THEY came to ask.
Paul then launches into his discourse. He doesn't hold back words, but he does so in a gracious manner. The end result:
Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
Act 17:33 So Paul departed from among them.
He stated his case. When he was mocked he left. He didn't sit there and mock back. He showed Christian charity knowing that to do otherwise would affect how ALL Christian would be perceived in the future.
Compare that with the attitude and behavior of some of those on this thread. It's possible to share your faith without behaving like a bunch of adolescent bullies.
FWIW, HW Armstrong had prophesied that ""NO American astronaut will return from the Moon ALIVE!""
I suspect that there are some people who would insist that this was , in fact, "TRUE PROPHECY"
I'm surprised it took you this long. However, I don't follow Herbert Armstrong nor do I consider him to be a prophet. So if you want to continue to do the opposite of what the bible teaches, please feel free.
Contender Ministries????? Is this your Church?
From your link: "Though the doctrine of the Trinity is quite biblical, many Christians find themselves unable to adequately answer the attacks on this doctrine by other monotheistic religions such as Islam and Judaism, as well as polytheistic and henotheistic religions such as Mormonism and the Jehovah’s Witnesses (henotheism is the belief in multiple gods, but the worship of only one)."
Well......I'm not a Mormon. I'm not Islamic nor am I Jewish. I'm not even a Jehovah's Witness.....but I know that this doctrine emanates from Roman Catholicism, has pagan roots....and is not Biblical!
A three in one Godhead: To support this idea you must use terms not found in the Bible.....rely on false scripture based on twisted interpretations that contradict extremely clear scriptures....and create a convoluted theory that no one really understands......forcing it's adherents to declare it a mystery!
Now.....since I've exposed the fairy tale of the Trinity, do you consider this to be mocking you?
No. I referenced a comparison chart between Mormon and Christian beliefs. Said Mormon beliefs which no longer seem to interest you in lue of attacking the Catholic Church, as follows...
"... and is not Biblical!" (Trinity)
I disagree.
"... since I've exposed the fairy tale of the Trinity,"
We can discuss this if you like, but Trinity debates tend to be looooooong.
"... do you consider this to be mocking you?"
No. I consider this to be an opportunity.
Ok, so let me get this correct: the Three in One God head is not Biblical or the term trinity is not Biblical?
Of course the word “trinity” is not in the Bible, it is a word to explain simply “three in one”.
What false scriptures are you referring to? Just wondering.
I'm sorry. I thought you were a Kansas City Church of God guy.
My Bad.
My apologies.
Carry on.
I'm surprised that you are still a Trinitarian....after so many long debates under your belt.
The theory, in itself....is quite easy to disprove, so evidently you have not paid attention... or have simply been unable to comprehend elementary Bible passages.
Nevertheless....you are correct in that I'm really not interested in Mormon vs "Mainstream" Christianity comparison charts as I realize there is a great gulf of theological differences between the two.
But.....if a man tells me he worships the God of the Universe who gave His only begotten Son [John 3:16] as a sacrifice for my sins which enables me to claim eternal life, I tend to believe that he worships the same God that I do.
So there is no misunderstanding.....I think we can be assured there are many folks.....in all confessions who likewise honor this same God.
So we have people defending the prophecies of Joseph Smith about men in the moon and carrying the water for the Mormons, (who are for the most part conspicuously absent from this thread), taking issue with the Christian definition of the Trinity.
It is not surprising that those who deny the Trinity, like the COG and the LDS Churches would find fellowship in defending prophecies about moon people. Both the COG and the Mormons mock the idea of the Trinity. But neither the COG nor the Mormons will mock the idea of Quakers on the moon.
This is a very enlightening thread. I'm glad I posted it.
Carry on.
Generally the scripture most often used to justify the existence of a "Three in One Godhead" is: [1 John 5:7-8] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The above is from the King James Version and is an incorrect rendition of what the original Greek actually said. The reason I say "rendition and not translation" is because certain words were added to the text....not found in the original manuscripts.
A better rendition and correct translation would be: [1 John 5:7-8] For there are three that testify; the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
The additional words appeared in four late manuscripts, evidently the work of monk copyists, intent on proving up the doctrine of the Trinity.....first established at Nicaea. The additional words were marginal notes at first.... but then began appearing in later manuscripts as scripture. Unfortunately....the KJ translators included them as inspired.
Wow.
I have not actually corresponded with anyone who has taken it upon himself to rewrite the Bible to fit their own ideas.
Wow just wow.
Well.....actually....I really didn't rewrite it. Some medieval monk copyist did.....like I said earlier.
Bow Wow!
#212 Ping
As said before, but not of importance to the antis;
A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH GOT IT WRONG, NOT THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH.
I don't believe I made that statement. I said nothing about three separate Godheads. I only said that early manuscripts do not include the first part of [1 John 5:7-8] where much of the Trinitarian doctrine finds its basis.
Paul....in his letters does not salute the Trinity. He only mentions The Father and The Son. James says: "A servant of God and of The Lord Jesus Christ." Peter, in his epistles mentions not a third member of any Godhead in his salutations. John, likewise....talks about God and Our Saviour. Jude salutes God...The Father and Jesus Christ. And.....in The Revelation...John fails to mention this third person who has been left out by the others The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Why all this ignoring of the Trinity? Simply because it is pagan doctrine....finding its entrance into mainstream Christianity through the Council of Nicaea.
You have translated from the original texts what you quoted.
I have not translated anything....I have only offered what was in the original and included scripture to verify that the Apostles did not address any third person of the Godhead in their letters.
I'm sorry....I must leave the forum for now. My lovely wife....the mother of my children.....the grandmother of my grandchildren....needs me to take her to brunch. I still cannot figure out how I was so fortunate to find her.
Diego, are you LDS?
Humans make mistakes across the board, including at much going in the church (imperfect sermons; imperfect teaching efforts, etc). It doesn't mean that either we stop those practices altogether or that God can't work (at times) His perfection thru us, does it?
I addressed this already, in effect, at the end of post #188...where I moved from God to man as God's people engaged in examples of righteous sarcasm and righteous ridicule/mocking (and I certainly know there's more of the unrighteous kind):
I'll repost it here: 1 Kings 18 (again, what Enosh pointed out to you earlier plus the following examples):
The righteous will see and fear; They will laugh at him, saying, ‘Here now is the man who did not make God his stronghold but trusted in his great wealth and grew strong by destroying others!’” (Ps. 52:6-7)
Mormons hold a strong tradition of embracing the Olive tree and other trees in their “Scriptures” and a particularly Mormon parable… and note that the verse after Ps. 52:6-7 talks about the “olive tree,” as does a passage where one of God’s people (Jotham) uses a sarcastic parable (Judges 9:7-19).
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