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Posted on 05/08/2008 5:04:47 PM PDT by Grig
I am posting this on behalf of many LDS freepers. They will post their own 'signature' to this in the comments below. --- Some of you have noticed lately a lot of LDS (ie: Mormon) threads here on FR. I'm going to tell you why.
For many years there have been several active LDS freepers here. We post to all the forums on relevant issues, and were happy to have a site where conservative values were so openly welcomed.
Those conservative values include faith in God, and freedom of religion. We fully respect the rights of all posters to express their opinions and views on religious matters, even when people choose to use those rights to express criticism of our own faith. We also support the ideas embodied in FR rules against religion bashing. There is no need for hostility and there should be no room for bigotry on FR. Every religion has it's miracles and mysteries. Every faith has things in it that are not or can not be proven, and things that run contrary to what secular science would have us believe. Someone mature and confident in their own faith generally doesn't feel the need to belittle the faith of others.
We have, to the best of our ability, conducted ourselves with civility and dignity. We do not feel that that respect has been returned by some posters (putting it mildly).
When Mormon missionaries were murdered, the moderators were kept busy pulling jubilant posts off the thread. When Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her home, we contended for months with posters who appeared to be motivated by religious bigotry doing all they could to smear the family and accuse the father. Several posters openly admitted their religious motivation in opposing Mitt Romney and confessed that no matter how conservative any Mormon was, they would never vote for one for President of the USA. When the Pope died, I don't think any Mormon poster posted anything unkind, yet the thread about the passing of our President recently needed many comments removed.
Nearly every thread having any connection with Mormons, or Utah winds up being hijacked by anti-Mormon activists who copy and paste the same false accusations over and over even when it has been clearly and factually pointed out to them on multiple occasions that they are bearing false witness against our faith. Everything possible is done by these activists to make FR a hostile place for Mormons, and for at least some of them, bashing Mormonism is all they do here. Their most recent project is trying to blur the fact that the polygamous FLDS is a separate and distinct religion from ours, just as Lutherans are a separate and distinct religion from Catholicism.
In our opinion, such poster do a great disservice to FR and to their fellow freepers by spreading disinformation and promoting hostility towards a people known for walking the walk of conservative values.
Why the moderators here don't see the behavior of these anti-Mormon activists as religion bashing is a mystery to us, but it is the moderators call to make and we respect their right to do so. That doesn't mean we have to be passive however. We have all spent many hours refuting the accusations leveled at our faith, but these wind up buried deep in a flood of comments, effectively shouting us down.
Recently some of us have decided to take a more proactive approach. Rather than try to wrestle the pig into taking a bath, we are just going to hose it down. We will actively define our faith here rather than just respond to accusations.
So expect to see lots of Mormon threads, now and for as long as we see fit to keep posting them (although probably not as many as there are Catholic threads). They will be about our basic doctrines and responses to common accusations. If you want to know what our faith is about, read the articles we post. We will post them as open threads and I encourage you to compare the difference in tone and spirit between what we post and what our critics say.
We are the only Faith that believes that by God's grace we are forgiven even before the deeds if we simply accept God's love given through his son. Once that is done, by the very virtue of following his word and feeling his grace we do good works. We don't have to work to be worthy as other faiths do, that worthiness was already given to us, we just have to accept and keep it.
That is what makes True Christianity the one true faith, for a powerful God can do such and does make his followers play games to reach heaven.
Neither the OT, NT, nor 1 Enoch teaches the pre-existence of man/Adam. All three sources only teach the eternal Existence of “The Son of Man in heaven”, who is seen by Enoch, there, as the alter ego of the Great Glory [God the Creator in the Person of the WORD] who was “hidden from the beginning”;”with God”; “who was God”; who “was to come” to be revealed to the “elect” [who choose to live -by their freewill- the elect/chosen for them, life, in His New Man name]. And Adam was made in His image: Genesis 1:26-28; Romans 5:14]
And He “is now Come” and He “shall return” in the same garments of second creation Man, the human being flesh in which He took back up at His resurrection [which could not corrupt in the three days and nights HE was absent from it], in which same human flesh He ascended, which same human flesh He donned at the incarnation, when He descended [Isaiah 59; Revelation 19].
“Adam” is the name of our being, which is the first human flesh as to creation; and each soul in Adam was personally designed by the Creator and written down in the Book of Life, as to all the parts and times of appearing [coming forth in Adam], and the boundaries of the days [times of appearing], in that same Book of Life. And that Book was written from the beginning of the world. It is the designer’s handbook of His own “Patented” human being creation.
We were created to be a human being “son of God” in Adam and made to be a human being “temple not made with hands”, “for the Glory” of the UNSEEN YHWH to indwell; and that was our purpose from the beginning of our creation.
Because the Designer of our being and the Governor of our times knew that the head/chief/firstborn of our being would fall -and we became defiled as a temple for the Glory in our coming forth from the created seed in his loins [Haggai 2]- then He had already planned the Redemption of our kind by the “Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world”, who, Himself, is YHWH in the second Person -and only Seen image of YHWH- who is come as brother to Adam flesh in the incarnation [Kinsman] and perfect sacrifice for our Atonement.
He did not come in flesh as an “Adam” person, but is come in flesh created “New” in the womb of the virgin, so as to have the legal right to the throne of David; which is the throne of Man for which Adam was made to sit on in the heavenlies of this earth’s creation. And He is come as brother to Adam by that flesh of second creation so as to have the legal right to perform the duty of “Kinsman/Redeemer” to Adam.
Adam sold that right by falling for the lies of the temptor, and sold it without remedy of redemption for all his seed. No one of his seed could pay a ransom for himself -or for a brother- which could redeem the lost dominion and restore him as a human being son of God; for once defiled, clay is not usable for bearing the Glory or entering into the presence of the Glory on high with any acceptable offering [as taught in the Schoolmaster -our Tutor- which is the Living Oracles committed only to the namesake people of the New Man name].
In the fall, Adam lost what the temptor told him he would get, by disobedience, for Adam was created as “Adam, son of God” [Luke 3:38; Genesis 1:26-28”; Malachi 2:15], and the throne in the heavenlies of this earth’s dominion remained unclaimed by the head of our race, and none of his seed had any means of attaining that throne of “Son of Man” in the dominion of the heavenlies of this earth’s creation; which throne is totally described in 1 Enoch, by Enoch, who was shown all things.
When Adam fell from the Glory He had and was destined for as “son of God, human kind” his purpose became vain, and he was then shamed by the loss and tried to cover the shame of the loss with fig leaves. They didn’t cover the loss and the shame, and that loss is why we wear clothes to cover the shame of that loss of purpose of being, as “Adam, son of God” with the Glory indwelling.
Since the fall, no Adam/man person/soul has ever ascended to that throne, but the “Son of Man who is in heaven”, who is “come down”, and who is “ascended” to sit down on that throne.
The redemption is really “the redemption” and the restoration is really “the restoration”, of the heavens and the earth, and of “whosoever will” [offered only to those born of Adam], in the New Man’s name [which is the adoption name]; and one receives the Spirit of adoption by repenting of their sins and calling on His name for Salvation.
To call on His name is to admit and accept that He is LORD, our Savior, Creator, Redeemer, YHWH come down from heaven in second Man creation, as our Kinsman, to Redeem us back for the Glory we lost in Adam .
Second birth of Spirit in the second Man’s name is the only way to have a share of the inheritance which Adam, former son of God of the human kind, lost, and which God, our Salvation, as the Anointed One come down, bought back,
1 Enoch does teach about the glory reserved in heaven for the redeemed, which they lose by being blotted out of the Book of Life.
What I find laugable...is LD$, Inc is ALL about $$$$. And lot's of it...
Assets probably in the $40 to $50 BILLION range. And it's not all in buildings. Don't anyone let them try and pull that wool over your eyes.....
These guy's are very PROUD of their BILLION$. I've seen it, and heard it...too many times.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
Yeah, they even bashed John Hagee. Mormons need to take the chip off of their shoulder, and send their young boys off the bikes, with short sleeves, ties...and a TITLE ELDER, to help out in the Cyclone of Myanmar.... Joesph Smith was a psycho....all of this FLDS stuff sent me to the library to get the REST OF THE STORY about the many wives of Joseph Smith, wanting people to embrace the PRINCIPLE, bringing all of those cosmic souls to earth inn Mormon bodies..
Your experience is happening over and over. One result is this thread, the flood of LDS propaganda on FR, and the increased attempt to stifle any debate with the posted propaganda.
But, the truth is coming out. There are many threads on FR that have much information from over the past year or more.
If you would like to look them up, try doing a search on the posting history of: gozdilla, colofornian;mhgintn;conservative gramma;zakeet;sky pilot;p marlowe. This is just a start, there are more scholars with excellent information posted.
I was thinking it would take that to be understood
As far as being a “nice witness”, witnessing was not my intent, I only stated fact. I let others witness the faith, I am more a foot solider who tends to go up against those who directly or indirectly attack the one true faith.
Ok I'll take your word for it. Although, with the limited time we've spent in discussion, I'm thinking you may be cast better as a clerk typist in this "army." :-)
As far as being a “holiness” far from it, but if it is holiness you seek I suggest the Bible, and the chapter and verse i quoted would be a good starting point. Perhaps from there your invincible ignorance will fall away to blessed grace...
I'd rather seek my guidance from those whom actually seem to live what they read. But thanx.
I am confused here again...Am I being called a pig because I am not LDS? I believe it is the right of anyone to have "their religion" but to use that statement is not very nice at all.
Being “nice” was not the point of the thread.
I guess not. Being compared to a pig & being hosed down is insulting IMHO. I wouldn’t say that about a different religion then mine though. Muslims would really be offened too. I hope they are able to understand all of this...
As far a living what I read, I do my best, but God also carried a sword against his enemies, and he has many this day and age be they the followers of false gods or no god at all. Those whom have heard and did not listen and then fight against him and past being witnessed to. To borrow your very apt screen name, they may appear invincible, but in the end their ignorance will be their undoing.
That's funny, I thought I was talking to you?
As far a living what I read, I do my best, but God also carried a sword against his enemies, and he has many this day and age be they the followers of false gods or no god at all. Those whom have heard and did not listen and then fight against him and past being witnessed to. To borrow your very apt screen name, they may appear invincible, but in the end their ignorance will be their undoing.
I agree. Those ignorant non-Christians. What's up with that?
You were, you said it took two post for you to feel understood...
As far as “what’s up with that”, the evil one is very busy this day and age...
Indeed. Sorry I only posted one last time.
As far as “what’s up with that”, the evil one is very busy this day and age...
Thanx for the warning. I should probably wear my raincoat and rubber boots.
Indeed. Sorry I only posted one last time.
As far as “what’s up with that”, the evil one is very busy this day and age...
Thanx for the warning. I should probably wear my raincoat and rubber boots.
Ya I've always thought you guys had somewhat of a dilemma. "Go ye out into the world" on one hand and "be ye not unequally yoked" on the other. I've heard the "Spirit" will let ya know when to hold them and when to fold them.
Ok then; can you tell us just WHAT Joseph Smith 'learned' that was UNTRUE about Presbytreianism.
(Note: rearranging and re-stating the question is NOT considered to be an adequate answer.)
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