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To: zerosix
Try this, for starters, given some 20 years prior to the Civil War.

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 87
Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. HC 1: 301–302. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.
1–4, War foretold between the Northern States and the Southern States; 5–8, Great calamities shall fall upon all the inhabitants of the earth.

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.
4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;
7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.
8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

33 posted on 05/04/2008 7:11:39 PM PDT by sevenbak (1 Corinthians 2:14)
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To: sevenbak

EVERYBODY with a pulse knew South Carolina was going to secede from the Union.

Next...


43 posted on 05/04/2008 7:31:45 PM PDT by rjsimmon
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To: sevenbak; zerosix
In 1876, the LDS issued a new, revised edition of The Doctrine And Covenants which (a) rearranged the sequence of the different numbered sections of The Doctrine And Covenants and (b) added 26 new numbered sections that had never previously been printed in any edition of The Doctrine And Covenants.

One of those new numbered sections was 87, the section that "foretold" The Civil War, but which had never been in any edition of The Doctrine And Covenants until eleven years after that war had ended.

The Doctrine And Covenants asserts that this section was written in 1832, but there is no autograph to corroborate the date of this section or the fascinating timing of its eventual inclusion.

44 posted on 05/04/2008 7:31:58 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: sevenbak
False Prophecy #2: Civil War Prophecy This is one of the more popular Mormon prophecies, one which Mormons like to point to as proof that Joseph Smith was indeed a true prophet. Mormons like to make much out of the statement that it would begin with South Carolina, and hence that the prophecy came to pass. In actual fact, the prophecy did notcome to pass, and much detail of the prophecy is ignored (or else not read) by Mormons who cite this prophecy in support of Joseph Smith.

An understanding of the political background of the prophecy tells an interesting story.

As early as July, 1832, South Carolina had shown itself to be a somewhat rebellious member of the Union, and had even threatened to secede from the union (this was because of a tariff act Congress had passed which South Carolina had rejected). . . In the interim between the events of July 1832 and the December 1832 prophecy of Smith, the Mormon leader had been to New York city, where there was was general concern that South Carolina would secede from the Union. After Smith�s return to Ohio, South Carolina threatened secession if the tariff act was enforced. The date of Joseph Smith's prophecy is December 25, 1832, five months after the beginning of the turmoil in South Carolina, during which time Smith had been exposed to the rumours of secession and war while in New York.

This news reached Ohio in due course and on December 25, l832, Joseph prophesied of a war that would originate in South Carolina. The point to note is this: since the news about the threat of war was public knowledge before Dec.25, l832, Smith had good material for his prediction. All the statement of South Carolina shows is that Joseph Smith knew the political situation of the time, and of course he would have known it, it was common knowledge that South Carolina had threatened secession over the tariff act.

So it is not simply a case that Joseph could not have known anything in advance; on the contrary, he surely knew that South Carolina was very likely going to secede and start a war. The details of the prophecy, as recorded below, show that Smith was very much in error about the details of the war, and hence his credibility as a "prophet" is destroyed.

Below is the text of the prophecy from Doctrine and Covenants (emphasis mine). It is well to read the prophecy with the political background in mind.

"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls; And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations. And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war. And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations"
(D&C: Section 87:1-6) Also RLDS Church History, Vol. l, pp. 262-263) Response: Although the Civil War did occur, it was never "poured out upon all nations" and did not lead to "a full end of all nations." Also, slaves did not rise up in rebellion against their masters. In other words, a lot of this prophecy never in fact came to pass. And the part that did aparently come to pass, the starting of the Civil War in South Carolina, and the Southern States fighting the Northern States, was something that could easily have been discerned as early as 1832, as the political situation was indeed very volatile at that time in South Carolina. The war was certainly not "poured out upon all nations", and we still have nations in the 21st century, and had them after the Civil War too, so there was no "full end of all nations". Therefore the prophecy is false.

Again, as with the first prophecy discussed above, the wording of this prophecy makes it quite clear that Joseph Smith was indeed acting as a prophet when he made this prophecy, so there is no recourse for Mormons to say now that Smith was not acting in his capacity as prophet. The language of the prophecy (especially the introductory statement. "Verily, thus saith the Lord", ) makes it quite clear that Smith was acting in his capacity as prophet. It is also well to point out that the trueprophets of the Old Testament never made a false prophecy, and did not need recourse to the type of excuses Mormon missionaries come up withtoday. Why should the same standard not apply to Joseph Smith? (The answer of course is because he fails as a prophet.)

Conclusion:
We see from an analysis of two prophecies of Joseph Smith, that this supposed prophet of God was not a prophet at all , but a false prophet. There are in fact numerous other prophecies of Joseph Smith which could be examined and found wanting, but that is not really necessary. Just one false prophecy is enough to make one a false prophet. We have presented two such false prophecies in this paper. No amount of wrangling by Mormon apologists will undo the stark facts: these prophecies failed to come true!

Joseph Fielding Smith [Mormon Prophet] stated: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground."
"If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, . . ." (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188-9.)

"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22. From Here

45 posted on 05/04/2008 7:32:57 PM PDT by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: sevenbak
And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

FALSE PROPHECY!

67 posted on 05/04/2008 8:53:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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