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1 posted on 05/02/2008 2:09:52 PM PDT by Augustinian monk
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Sola Scriptura Ping!


2 posted on 05/02/2008 2:10:55 PM PDT by Augustinian monk (You going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?- Jose Wales)
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To: Augustinian monk
I urge my fellow evangelicals to seriously consider the consequences of rejecting sola scriptura as the formal principle of our theology. If my Hebrews analogy is correct, such a rejection is tantamount to apostasy.

Apostasy to whom?

Luther?

Zwingli?

Cauvin?

3 posted on 05/02/2008 2:11:43 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Mad Dawg; NYer; Campion; Titanites; pgyanke; stfassisi
But why are literate American Christians running away from sola scriptura at a time when searching the Scriptures (especially using computer technology) has never been easier?

The question answers itself.

Literate American Christians are running away from sola scriptura because searching the Scriptures (especially using computer technology) has never been easier.


4 posted on 05/02/2008 2:19:00 PM PDT by Petronski (When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth, voting for Hillary.)
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To: Augustinian monk

Briefer answer:

Like a dog that returns to his vomit
is a fool who repeats his folly
(Proverbs 26:11)


7 posted on 05/02/2008 2:21:49 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Augustinian monk
Some Protestants convert to Catholicism and some Catholics convert to Protestantism. :::shrug:::

It should be all about the Lord either way.

8 posted on 05/02/2008 2:22:57 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Augustinian monk

Speaking as a Presbyterian (more of a free-agent Protestant), I find the idea of sola scriptura a bit lacking.

First, it was the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church that closed the scriptures in the first place. To uphold the idea of sola scriptura is at once a rebuke of and validation of the Catholic Church.

Second, the idea of sola scriptura essentially amounts to the belief that no revelation God could ever make short of the Second Coming is worthy of being recorded as anything more than history or theology. That seems a little suspect to me.

There are certain things that would lead me to stop short of becoming a Catholic, but there is a lot I admire in the Church and its approach. I also tend to refer to anyone not Catholic or Orthodox as a Protestant by default.


9 posted on 05/02/2008 2:25:51 PM PDT by CaspersGh0sts
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To: Augustinian monk
If sola scriptura were the formal principle in Warren’s theology, then he would provide vigorous, Biblical analysis using sound exegesis to ground his reformation on the authority of Scripture. But his teachings and public statements are not characterized by sound Biblical exegesis.

The issue the author has with Warren, et al, is not that they don't practice sola scriptura, but rather, they don't practice it the way the author believes it should be practiced. Indeed, the author seems to adhere to the relatively recent invention of solo scriptura (a term, while arguably grammatically incorrect, coined by Protestants themselves, to describe the quandary they find themselves in today, to whit: the practice of using only the Bible to form doctrine, and no outside sources such as history, or traditional practices, OR accepting traditions and church leadership as long as they don't "violate Scripture"). This can be shown by a simple rewording of the author's statement above

If sola scriptura were the formal principle in Warren’s theology tradition of celebrating Christmas, then he would provide vigorous, Biblical analysis using sound exegesis to ground his reformation practice of celebrating Christmas on the authority of Scripture. But his teachings and public statements are not characterized by sound Biblical exegesis.

As we can see here, the author's statement can be used to "justify" rejecting all sorts of "extra Biblical practices", thus, falls under the category of solo scriptura. Again, the author is basically complaining that Warren et. al. don't have the same extra Biblical practices as he does. A complaint that ultimately falls flat on its face if its applied equally, fairly, to reject all extra Biblical practices and or traditions. The only counter argument to that is "Christmas is an old tradition, but Warren's practices aren't old, therefore shouldn't be equivocated to "traditions" like Christmas". A ludicrous rebuttal for what should be obvious reasons.

This is why, ultimately, I've rejected Protestantism in general. There seems to be no consensus about what the fundamental dogma of Protestantism (sola scriptura) means. Some believe as this author (apparently) believes, that "Anything not soundly shown in a positive state in Scripture should be rejected" (which is really solo scriptura), while others believe that there's a place for tradition and church leadership, but they are both subject to, what is eventually, personal interpretation of Scripture. (which is historic sola scriptura)

Why mess with a version of Christianity that can't even agree on their central dogma? I've been told that there's just as much dispute among Catholics/Orthodox as there is among Protestants, but I've found no evidence that there are disputes on dogma, like there are in the tens (if not 100's or 1000's) of Protestant denominations.

15 posted on 05/02/2008 2:40:27 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Augustinian monk

To come to the fullness of the Christian faith will bring incredible joy to so many sincere believers.

The Sacramental life along with the love of Scripture is a wonderful thing.

One can never plumb the depths of the Catholic faith for there is much mystery. Also 2000 years of church history.
So many wonderful writings and tradtions.

The journey home can be rough but the joy to be found is worth it all.


21 posted on 05/02/2008 2:44:49 PM PDT by magdalen
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To: Augustinian monk

23 posted on 05/02/2008 2:47:32 PM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, youÂ’ve got it made." Groucho Marx)
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To: Augustinian monk
Perhaps the best antidote to rejecting sola scriptura and going back to Rome would be a careful study of the Book of Hebrews.

In this portion of the text, the author is arguing for the concept of an "invisible church" that is present today, apparently with no visible structure or hierarchy. All very well and good if the Bible only consisted of the Book of Hebrews, but it of course, does not.

Matt 5:14-16, "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

The "church" (the body of believers) are to be a visible manifestation of Christ's work in them, for the world.

Eph 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

We are exhorted to strive for UNITY, and not settle for division. (cf. Matt 12:25, 1 Cor 1:13) At no point are we told that it's "ok" to have division, and let that division stand, for the good of anyone. If there exists only an "invisible church", who exists IN this "invisible church" to settle matters of dogma? We certainly can't rely on the nebulous claim "The Holy Spirit guides me" to settle dogma, because it's too easy to claim that. Every Christian that has rejected church authority claims to "have the Holy Spirit". Indeed, not everyone who says "Lord Lord" finds favor with Christ.

34 posted on 05/02/2008 2:57:26 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Augustinian monk

sola Scriptura Dittos!


42 posted on 05/02/2008 3:21:17 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Augustinian monk
What I find amusing is how the obvious issue is being missed entirely.

Shouldn't the larger issue for the author be that when Protestants research the first thousand years of Christianity, they do not find any trace of their core beliefs?

Wouldn't those closest to Christ, His death, and Resurrection be in a better position to interpret what Christ meant than a man sixteen hundred years after the fact? Or even a contemporary "bible-believing" church two thousand years after the fact?

Why, when Evangelicals search the "ancient" Church, do they find beliefs that contradict their own? If an evangelical "church" is the "true church" of Christ, shouldn't they find validation of their beliefs in the first thousand years of Christianity?


49 posted on 05/02/2008 3:38:48 PM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: Augustinian monk

I think only those who are convinced that what the Catholic Church teaches is true should become Catholic. I honestly am dismayed that so many godly Protestants are being abandonded by their denominations. And yes I consider it abandonment when a faithful Christian is told that the Holy Spirit is doing a new thing and God now blesses homosexual behavior. Or that cow farts are a matter for Easter reflection. Or that Jesus is a vehicle to the divine. Or Baptism shall be in the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer. It stinks and it is heartbreaking for so many non Catholics to see their denominations becoming liberal social clubs.

I pray that all Protestants can find a church home where the Reformed traditions they hold so dear are preached and practiced. Where the only one glorified is the Triune God.


58 posted on 05/02/2008 3:50:26 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Augustinian monk
The “ancient Church” was also a primitive Church, equipped by the Spirit of God with spiritual gifts and a complete theology to produce good works according to the will of God and to overcome sin, self and the world. It was completely devoid of the lavish rituals and mind-numbing, evolving protocol which epitomizes the Catholic Church in all its manifestations through the ages. This is my major beef with Catholicism - besides the overt Marianism, doctrines of purgatory, Papal infallibility, etc. If the early, primitive Church was complete and equipped with all it needed, all additions are superfluous dross. That goes for Protestant inventions as well as Catholic.
66 posted on 05/02/2008 3:55:21 PM PDT by fwdude
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To: Augustinian monk
Once sola scriptura has been rejected, there remain few reasons not to go back to Rome. If religious traditions can be considered normative, then why not embrace those with the longest history?

Indeed!

73 posted on 05/02/2008 4:07:07 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Augustinian monk
...wouldn't we be better off sticking to the safe ground of revealed truth? ... But why are literate American Christians running away from sola scriptura at a time when searching the Scriptures (especially using computer technology) has never been easier?

Because we have discovered this supposedly "safe ground of revealed truth is actually the barren ground of private interpretation.

79 posted on 05/02/2008 5:06:56 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Augustinian monk; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; ...
Eventually, all roads lead to Rome.

Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


85 posted on 05/02/2008 5:29:02 PM PDT by NYer (Jesus whom I know as my Redeemer cannot be less than God. - St. Athanasius)
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To: Augustinian monk; Gamecock

So protestants are abandoning the extra-scriptura tradition of sola scriptura, while some protestants are arguing to maintain the reformation tradition of sola scriptura.

How ironic...


89 posted on 05/02/2008 6:15:26 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Augustinian monk; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

90 posted on 05/02/2008 6:18:58 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Augustinian monk

In Christ alone my hope is found.
Not by organizations founded by man.

Those organizations should only exist to bring us to the feet of Christ.
If they attempt to do any more, then they have circled back and are no better than the Pharisees and others that Jesus condemned.


108 posted on 05/02/2008 8:45:27 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland ("We have to drain the swamp" George Bush, September 2001)
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