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[sr4402]

The Lord Jesus Christ taught us to pray Thy KINGDOM come... on earth as it is in Heaven

[CTrent1564]

Is this a Protestant Pre-Millenial thread only? If so, I will respect that and not post. I was not able to tell based on the original article you cited.

Thanks

[marinamuffy]

Interesting read. Thank you for posting.

I always read, but rarely post on, the eschatology threads.

Although I lean heavily toward the pre-millenial view, I don't consider the topic to be a salvation issue. Pre-mil, post-mil, amil, we are all of the same family - saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

This Justin Martyr quote (on his apparently pre-mil view) from the article makes me believe he may have felt similarly:

“many who belong to pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.”

[Uri’el-2012]

“Before the time of Origen it was reasonably common to find the fathers expressing their belief in a personal second coming of Christ together with a millennial reign of the saints with Christ after their resurrection from the dead. Origen denounced millennialism perhaps because of his view that it overemphasized the sensual and the material.”

This is the same fellow who castrated himself in order to remove worldly
distractions and led to celibacy in the Roman church.

"This asceticism, particularly fasting and celibacy, was commended
more or less distinctly by the most eminent ante-Nicene fathers, and was practised, at least partially, by a particular class of Christians
(by Origen even to the unnatural extreme of self-emasculation)."

HISTORY OF THE
CHRISTIAN CHURCH
VOL. 3
by Philip Schaff

The Greek philosophical schools led to many errors in the early church.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Quix]

THANKS MUCH.

DID ANYONE LISTEN TO COAST TO COAST LAST NIGHT? Going to the website to see what docs I can post from the guest’s website shortly.

END TIMES PING LIST PING.

Please let me know if you want on or off.

[stfassisi]

From scripturecatholic.com

There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year “millennium” (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).

(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).

2 Thess. 2:1-4 – concerning the Second Coming of Christ, Scripture teaches (and most Protestants believe) that Christ’s coming will be preceded by a time of rebellion, lawlessness and persecution. Protestants often refer to this period as the “tribulation” (although the word “tribulation” cannot be found in the Scripture passages Protestants use to support the “rapture”). So the question is, when will the 1 Thess. 4:16-17 “rapture” occur, in light of the tribulation and Christ’s Second Coming? Here are the three theories previously mentioned:

(1) Post-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur right after the tribulation and immediately before the Second Coming of Christ. This view can be consistent with Scripture and Catholic teaching to the extent it holds that the rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation and the Church Militant on earth. See, for example, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 1:1-12.

(2) Pre-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture before the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. In Heb. 9:28, it is clear that Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. This view also is inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12 where the rapture and the Second Coming occur together.

(3) Mid-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it also requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture during the middle of the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. As seen in Heb. 9:28, Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. The view is also inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12.

2 Peter 3:8-15 – instead of worrying about when the rapture will occur, Christians should follow Peter’s instruction to repent of their sins, live lives of holiness and godliness, be zealous and at peace, and wait for the Lord’s coming with forbearance and joy!

[AnalogReigns]

No offense but I’m not sure any of these guys got the Trinity exactly right either, so this doesn’t prove much. The beliefs of the Fathers are used to justify the papacy too.

[Quix]

I do now have permission to post things from ENDTIEMS.COM to FR etc.

And, have even figured out how to do it from the pdf files.

But it will be tonight or Thurs before I get to it.

Thanks tons for this thread.

Blessings,

[Uncle Chip]

Since most of the earliest Fathers either taught a literal millennium (though clearly differing on details) or were silent on the matter, how did amillennialism become the predominant view of the Church from the fourth century on? Evidently Origen was the first to publically break with this tradition.

I guess this means that Amillenialism is Origenal Sin :)

[dangus]

There is a gulf of difference between Millennialism and pre-Millennialism. These Christian Fathers were awaiting the fall of the City of Rome for the start of teh Millennium. Rome fell in 476. Constantinople fell 977 years later. The reformation began 1,045 years after the fall of Rome.

[dangus]

So I’m not misunderstood: As Augustine pointed out, the City of Man is forever seperated from the Kingdom of God; I’m not claiming that the legion of vile, petty leaders of Europe from 476 to 1521 were very good representatives of Christ. But AN interpretation of the Millennium is that the Kingdom of God is the Christian church (where valid sacraments exist. This neatly explains how the Millennium (The rule of Christ) can precede the second coming.

[antisocial]

Bump