Posted on 04/03/2008 8:28:09 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
It's been nearly a quarter of a century since Freemasons in Utah rescinded a 60-year ban that prohibited Latter-day Saints from joining their fraternity. And while many remember the religious division that had characterized Freemasonry in the Beehive State from pioneer times, Glen Cook believes he is evidence that things are changing among his Masonic brethren. Cook, a Salt Lake criminal defense attorney and Brigham Young University law school graduate, is believed to be the first member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be elected grand master in Utah in nearly a century, overseeing the activities of several lodges around the state and looking to make the group more open to public understanding.
During a recent tour of the Masonic Temple in downtown Salt Lake City following his installation in February, Cook said there are definite misconceptions about Freemasonry in Utah, particularly among Latter-day Saints, "but there's also some reality there as well."
Church founder Joseph Smith and his brother, Hyrum, were members of the Masonic lodge in Nauvoo, Ill., in the early 1840s, and historians have written in detail about the role of fellow Masons in the murder of the two men in June 1844. Smith's successor, President Brigham Young, and the three succeeding presidents of the church all were made Masons in the Nauvoo Lodge, as were many who presided in church hierarchy during and following Joseph Smith's death.
After leaving the Midwest for what was then the Utah Territory, most Latter-day Saints eventually ceased active involvement with Freemasonry, despite the fact that lodges were chartered here beginning in 1859. Cook said he thinks pioneer Latter-day Saints simply were too busy trying to build a city in the desert and serving their church to participate. Some historians have speculated about whether Freemasonry was discouraged by LDS leaders.
Whether or not that was the case, religious tension within the organization escalated to the point that, in 1925, "the Utah Grand Lodge Code precluded any Mormon ... totally from any relationship whatsoever" with Masonry in Utah, according to author Mervin Hogan's 1978 book, "The Origin and Growth of Utah Masonry and Its Conflict With Mormonism."
That provision of the code remained in force until 1984, when it was rescinded.
Freemasonry is not a religious practice, but confusion about what it is stems in part from the fact that the fraternity is believed by many historians to have originated in the ancient world because its symbols and rituals bear some similarity to sacred ceremonies that existed among the Egyptians, Coptic Christians, Israelites and even the Catholic and Protestant liturgies — all thought to have some common biblical source.
Many believe it originated with the stone masons who worked on Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, though no definitive evidence of that legend is known to exist. Others speculate that its tenets were had by Enoch, and possibly by Adam. Scholars have documented evidence that institutional Masonry dates back only to the Middle Ages, when great European cathedrals were being built by guilds of stone masons who practiced "the craft."
Cook said the fact that membership requires belief in a supreme being and a willingness to make obligations to fellow Masons through Masonic rituals and symbols that bear some limited similarity to LDS temple ceremonies also foster a misunderstanding of what the fraternity is, and is not.
"There is no question that elements of the (LDS temple) endowment and Masonic ritual are similar," Cook said. "The question for faithful Latter-day Saints is whether that makes a difference. I tend to be a rather concrete thinker."
For those who accept Joseph Smith as a prophet and believe he actually saw God and Jesus Christ in vision as a precursor to restoration of Christ's ancient church, "then the rest, I would suggest, should be a corollary" of that belief.
"I think sometimes we spend too much time worrying about issues that don't really matter to our salvation."
Nothing in LDS faith or practice precludes Latter-day Saints from becoming Masons, he said, though family and church obligations may limit the amount of time Mormon men can spend in other pursuits like Masonry.
"Freemasonry should be an adjunct to your faith and not a barrier to its exercise," Cook said. "I tell people that the only secrets we have are modes of recognition and the passwords. For those, you have to look on the Internet."
The "Encyclopedia of Mormonism" addresses questions about the faith's view of the fraternity, noting "the philosophy and major tenets of Freemasonry are not fundamentally incompatible with the teaching, theology and doctrines of the Latter-day Saints. Both emphasize morality, sacrifice, consecration and service, and both condemn selfishness, sin and greed. Furthermore, the aim of Masonic ritual is to instruct — to make truth available so that man can follow it."
The ritual resemblances between the two "are limited to a small proportion of actions and words," according to the encyclopedia, and "where the two rituals share symbolism, the fabric of meanings is different."
Cook said he sees signs within the Utah fraternity that a new openness is developing toward the community at large, and toward Latter-day Saints in particular, evidenced not only by his recent installation in ceremonies that were open to the public, but also in a willingness to acknowledge the faith in ways it hasn't previously been recognized.
On Feb. 2, during meetings before his formal installation took place, Cook said "a seasoned brother came to me and said, 'We should have a moment of silence for (deceased LDS Church) President (Gordon B.) Hinckley,"' as his funeral was taking place. "At 11 a.m., the grand master called the Grand Lodge of Utah to silence for that."
Later in the day, as members were having lunch together in the Masonic Temple downtown, someone mentioned that President Hinckley's funeral cortege would be passing their building shortly. "A group of Masons gathered on the front steps for that, not limited by religion, and stood with their hands over their hearts as the cortege passed," Cook said.
"I think those three things really signaled to me the change that has come about. ... I think LDS culture has changed, and that today, civic activities are not inappropriate."
As for what he plans to emphasize during his term as the 137th grand master of Utah, Cook said he will focus on the fraternal tenets of brotherly love, belief and truth.
"I find Freemasonry to be something at which to marvel, to be something which I view in awe," Cook wrote in a recent message published in a fraternal newsletter. "In a world in which men war and shed the blood of the innocent based on race, ethnicity and tribe, we have united ... without regard to the color of a man's skin, caring only about the tenor of his heart."
In short, Masons "are men who try to lead moral and upright lives. They contribute significantly not only on a private basis, but in a public way" as well, he said, noting they fund Shriner's Hospital for Children, help with arthritis research and other community causes.
"It's the place where I've found friends, men who have cared for me and my family and hold the moral values that I hold."
“What’s his name or is that just another secret in the secret society?”
Although he is a staunch conservative, I wouldn’t post his name here unless he wanted me too.
That said, the names of Masonic officers - at the local, district, and Grand Lodge level - are public and easy to find. Most lodges, and all Grand Lodges, even post them on their websites. In addition, you will find names of those at the “ominous” 33rd degree just as easily, as they are generally posted as announcements of their being raised to that honor. I guess that’s not a wise thing to do for folks who secretly rule the world, but what the hay? -sarc
There is much less secret about this “secret society” than you might think. In today’s world, Freemasonry less a secret group than merely a private one.
And by the way, since you feel threatened that he is a Catholic - I’ll give you just another twist: Not only is the Master of my lodge a Catholic, but he is also a 33rd degree, and an officer with one of the largest Scottish Rite chapters in New Jersey.
Catholic AND 33rd degree? I’m sure some of you will be apoplectic after hearing that.
We had the local RCC bishop come over years ago, opened the books, and he had no objection to his flock becoming masons.
Of course, this is America.
I understand there are some affilliated masonic organizations in Europe that are quite troublesome (something “21” or something) because they have a pretty firm anti Roman Church stance.
A deep-thinking response. How “christian” of you.
I am sorry you insist on seeing something that just is not there.
I am a nice redneck and a firm Christian of the protestant variety, accept Jesus the Christ as my Lord and Savior, know that the God of Abrham Issac and Jacob is the only God, and I know the difference between a religion and a fraternity.
The masons are no different than the Boy Scouts, except they have a long and rich history.
If you insist on seeing boogeymen, why not go after real ones, instead of insulting good men?
“Are you a troll, or just write & post like one?”
Nice comeback. You got me there.
“I understand there are some affilliated masonic organizations in Europe that are quite troublesome...”
Europe has strayed in some areas of Freemasonry. Many of the French lodges are not even recognized by mainstream Masons due to the fact that they admit women as members and have more than a few strange customs and appendant bodies. Even England has gotten a little nutty. Well-known Masonic author Brother Robert Lomas admitted openly that he is an atheist when being reviewed for admission. A mathematician by trade, he offered Newton’s Principia as his “Grand Architect of the Universe” and was allowed to join. (I guess that proves the lack of a “Masonic religion,” as some here have fearfully ranted, but I doubt it would convince them).
As there is really no central Masonic authority, local lodges can pretty much come up with their own stuff (although the state Grand Lodges frown on this and will not recognize or support those who do this). There was even a hoo-ha up on Staten Island that accidentally shot a candidate as part of some ridiculous ritual he made up on his own.
This lack of central authority is part of the reason why Masons are so suspect to many people. Whenever one of the anti-Mason nuts makes a charge, it pretty much goes unanswered. Many centralized organizations would sue over slanderous statements, but in our case, who would sue? And filing suit can potentially open another can of worms. As part of discovery and the case itself, the individual or group charged with slander would say: “Okay, tell us where we’re wrong.” As we are a private organization with oath-bound rites, we cannot be too explicit in our response for our duty binds us to our commitment. I’ve seen some on this thread even castigate us for keeping our oaths, but it is what binds us as brothers, and as I would not betray the faith and trust of my brothers, it is not up for negotiation.
But, as a previous poster whined, I guess I’m trolling too much here. Best to go back to lurking rather than express an opinion.
This wouldn't make me angry. It would matter whether he doesn't know his Church's teaching or doesn't care. If he really shares the Catholic faith, then I would be very concerned for him and would make certain he knows what this means.
From the Mason side, I would also wonder since I believe the fellowship emphasizes honesty and following one's religion seriously and faithfully. I believe this should be a serious matter to his fellows and his standing in Freemasonry.
If he is a serious practicing Catholic and was unaware, I think it would be negligent to not inform him for his own sake. If he is a serious practicing Catholic, is aware, and is acting contrary to the clear teaching of his Church on a extremely grave matter (Eucharist), then this should speak unfavorably to his character and true beliefs.,p>If he is Catholic in name only, then he is mis-identifying his religious affiliation and might as well say "none."
Your reply was nicer than a few of the others I received. It’s nice to have a reasoned discussion, and of course, great minds can differ.
You wrote:
“From the Mason side, I would also wonder since I believe the fellowship emphasizes honesty and following one’s religion seriously and faithfully. I believe this should be a serious matter to his fellows and his standing in Freemasonry.”
This would matter if Freemasonry was a religion (and I’m certain that it matters in the Knights of Columbus). But since we don’t question a man’s faith - only his belief in God, we feel that this is a matter for an individual and his own conscience (and his own interpretation of his religion).
Going back to my statement regarding the possible roots of Freemasonry in the Knights Templar - this is one of the factors in the legend of how the Masons rose from that order. After being betrayed by the pope of that day, it is thought that the surviving Templars/early Freemasons eschewed the solemn word of the pope as the funnel from which they receive their faith. To them, the pope no longer represented them (and in fact, was now hostile to them), and that it wasn’t necessary for them to acquire the word of God only through him. As a result, it was determined that a man could worship God in his own way. If a man decides to receive God’s word through the pope, it was his own right. If not, that was okay as well. After all, the Protestant faiths came to that conclusion themselves.
Regardless, it is up to a Catholic to come to terms with his religion - not the position of his brothers to force it upon him.
thanks for your reply.
A person who recognizes the authority of the Diocese Bishop and the teaching authority of the Church is not a Protestant. One who does not is not a Catholic.
My point was not about judging a man’s religion, but his character and honesty and honoring commitments - to his Church obligations, the same as it would be toward a brother who was unfaithful to his wife, or told major lies to his fellows, for example. This would reflect on whether he lived the values that masonry teaches and promotes.
Also, I believe that prospective Masons are told that joining will not affect their church relationship - at least I’ve read that as part of some freemasons.
Is this correct in your experience?
> There’s lots of quotes we’ve seen from Freemasons that contradict this. I know it’s changed, but still, “all” is a bit too broad, unless it’s “all since 19__” and even then maybe not completely accurate.
If some Freemasons view it as their religion, I guess it’s their right. It was and is certainly never intended to be a religion. Here is what the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) has to say on the matter:
> Basic Statement
>
> Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It demands of its members a belief in a Supreme Being but provides no system of faith of its own.
>
> Freemasonry is open to men of all religious faiths. The discussion of religion at its meetings is forbidden.
Their website is here: http://www.ugle.org.uk/masonry/freemasonry-and-religion.htm
UGLE is where modern Freemasonry finds its roots, and if there were to be an “authoritative” voice in Freemasonry, UGLE is it... (remember I DID say that we have no central authority like the Pope. That still holds true here).
> I think masonry today is quite removed from the trade guilds of the past. I believe speculative masons entered in the 1600s or so, So it’s no longer a trade guild, quite different; I’m not sure the connection to the Cathedral builders is valid. Now a comparison to “trade secrets” may be, but it’s quite a different “trade” involved.
Speculative Masonry has uplifted Operative Masonry philosophy and lessons, and applied them to building the human character, allegorically. We are not a “trade guild” anymore (altho’ we do have close Amity with many “Operative” mason lodges even today) but we do practise and celebrate their traditions.
> Which is why it can be classed as a “religion” by some definitions.
Insofar as, say, the US Marines build good Citizens from raw material, and insofar as, say, the Guardian Angels (which I also belong go) make good Citizens out of raw material, I guess if you were to really stretch a definition of “religion” to its breaking strain-point, just perhaps “religion” fits. Freemasons are as religious as Marines, or as Guardian Angels. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Once a Guardian Angel, always a Guardian Angel. And once a Freemason, always a Freemason.
Actually, now that I think about it, this is an excellent analogy: it fits perfectly.
> These allow atheists and they don’t teach indifferentism, they are indifferent to religion. There’s a difference. :)
We don’t allow athiests. No belief in God = no admittance into Freemasonry. Belief in God is an absolute requirement that is never, ever waived. Never.
> It’s back again to whether masonry is a religion or religious teaching.
In all honesty it is neither. It is a Self-Improvement club if it is anything. But definitely, definitely not a Religion.
> Not a good comparison if masonry is not a religion. AA freely admits that it is a spiritual program and a set of spiritual tools. It’s steps are quite similar to Catholicism, and the Orthodox movement, AA’s predecessor, is Anglican and very much self-admittedly religion.
It’s actually a fairly good comparison, insofar as our members are Anonymous if they want to be, and that we do, indeed, provide spiritual support for the individual, and insofar as we do provide a framework for our members to self-improve.
Aside from that? Well, no — it has no resemblance to a religion. None. Some of our members may substitute Freemasonry for a religion in their lives — that is fine, that is their business — but we really don’t seek to have that role, and indeed we don’t provide many of the essentials that a proper religion would otherwise provide. We are just there to make good men into better men, that’s all.
I think it timely to introduce you to a new concept, which is “Regular” Freemasonry versus “Irregular” Freemasonry — a split-off group.
Most of the objectionable things you may have heard about Freemasonry finds its origins with “Irregular” Freemasonry. They are not “in Amity” with Freemasons such as myself, or “uglybiker” or “MeanWestTexan” or George Washington or Winston Churchill or Benjamin Franklin.
“Regular Freemasonry” is “In Amity” with the United Grand Lodge of England — where modern Freemasonry ultimately started. “Irregular Freemasonry” is everybody else who claims to be Freemasons but who are not. These would include the so-called “Co-Freemasons” (allows female members) and more especially the lodges that are in amity with “The Grand Orient of France”.
The Grand Orient of France and lodges of their ilk *do* believe some very weird stuff. Some of their members probably are into the occult. And many of them are thoroughly corrupt (see the fabled “P2” Lodge, to which Villot, Marcinckus, and others belonged).
They are not us.
The Holy Roman Church is right to be opposed to Irregular Freemasonry: it is an ugly movement that does mankind no credit at all.
They are quite different to your garden-variety Freemason that attends Lodge in your neighborhood. Irregular Freemasonry has nothing to do with us at all: they are unwelcome at our Lodges and they may not attend any of our rituals. We are not permitted to have Freemasonic communication with them at all, on any level.
I personally feel that it is Irregular Freemasonry that the Holy Roman Church has reacted against (and rightly so). I also believe that my Regular Freemasonic brethren who are also Catholics are perfectly safe within Regular Freemasonry, and that their Salvation is not in jeopardy and their consciences clean and pure, despite the prohibitions that Rome has placed upon “Freemasonry”.
The Papal Bulls surely apply against Irregular Freemasonry. Not us.
> And finally, the thank you. Thank you for engaging in honest and courteous discussion with me here.
And likewise, thank you. It is a pleasure having honest and courteous discussion. As often as not, you will find me on various Catholic or LDS threads, defending Catholics and LDS against bigots — it’s a hobby of mine. Do an “In Forum” on me and have a look, you’ll see.
Here I recently gave an explanation of Papal Infallability — I thought it was fairly good: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1998581/posts?page=87#87
Anyrate, always happy to answer any questions you may have about Freemasonry: so long as it doesn’t violate my Oaths of Secrecy I will be more than happy to explain whatever I can.
Kind regards
*DieHard*
“Is this correct in your experience?”
Absolutely. At the beginning, I was asked whether I believe in God. My answer was “Yes” - and that was it. There was no further questioning, and certainly to proselytizing to me in lodge following that.
While much of our ritual is based on legends drawn from the Bible (I say legends because the Masons may take a true verse or two from say, the construction of King Solomon’s Temple, and expand them into an allegory beyond the written word), all of it is based on early writings of the Old Testament - a book that Catholics, Jews, Protestants, and Muslims can agree on. Most importantly, the lessons derived are those which seek to better a man’s relationship with his brothers and his family - not to worship or learn to worship God.
Many people don’t realize this, but there are two things that are considered taboo discussions during lodge or even within the temple itself: Religion and Politics. There is good reason for this. A simple glance at this board will show how both of these issues can insert rancor into usually friendly conversations. That rancor can develop into full-blown conflict. As we are brothers bound to each other, we strive to avoid subjects which introduce conflict, and focus on the fellowship of one another, and lessons that help us improve that - not only within the brotherhood itself, but with are families and the world in general.
One of the lessons we have is based around the speculative uses of our working tools. One of our phrases in these lessons is appropriate to this discussion: “The square teaches us to square our actions by the square of virtue and morality, with all mankind - especially the brethren.”
Once again, this is really what we are all about.
I’m sorry, I didn’t communicate very clearly.
The question I was trying to ask is:
Are prospective Masons told that joining will not affect their church relationship, or something to that effect. Is this correct in your experience?
“Are prospective Masons told that joining will not affect their church relationship, or something to that effect. Is this correct in your experience?”
There is a statement prior to our oath that says that the obligation will not ask anything of us that will interfere with our duty to God, family, country, neighbor, or self.
This is absolutely true, as there is nothing there or after that requires us any activity, indoctrination, or prosetylization that would interfere with any of those.
Now, to parse that out a bit, we do not mention our interference with our relationship with any church - only God. It is up to the member to decide whether what he does interferes with his relationship with his church. Not to nitpick, but even Catholics have varying standards of what interferes with their church that have changed from pope to pope.
thanks for your reply..
I’m not sure what you’re referring to on varying standards here. The specific proscription on Freemasonry goes back about 300 years I believe.
I can understand your point about leaving it up to the member. However for a practicing Catholic not being able to validly receive the sacrament of Holy Eucharist and being in grave sin would certainly interfere with his relationship to God. By definition, this is the state that one knows his relationship with God needs repentance and repair.
Again, I’m not arguing for Catholic beliefs to you here; just stating what they are.
I appreciate your time and courtesy in reply.
You’ve been very courteous and I feel like I’m brow beating you and I don’t wish to.
But I don’t think I have communicated effectively, likely because of the difference between the Catholic church and others.
I’d like to make one last attempt, and then I promise I will shut up and leave you alone.
If I may try an analogy. One that likely could not ever occur, but that’s irrelevant, I’m just using it to explain in a manner closer to your experience.
Let’s reverse the situation in a fashion.
Say that your Rite had a severe rule against its members joining a particular organization - whatever reason, it’s irrelevant. Only that the prohibition was clear and serious.
Say that if a member violated the prohibition, he could no longer participate in your rites and rituals or any other greatly significant event or working that makes masonry unique.
You explain this to a brother and he chooses one of four options:
1) He doesn’t join the other organization and remains in good standing.
2) He joins the other organization and leaves freemasonry and never returns.
3) He joins and and just goes to your bar-b-ques and social events, staying away during all significant mason meetings, rites, rituals. This is all that he wants from masonry.
4) He joins and participates in the other organization, but doesn’t tell you and continues to participate in your rites and rituals just as before.
If you can imagine this analogy, then you can see how I see the options for a Catholic considering freemasonry. Regardless of what the two organizations are in the analogy, I think we would have the response and respect for an individual depending on which of the four possible options he chose.
My last attempt at this.. thanks very much for your patience.
I believe the first papal bull on Freemasonry was by Pope Clement XII in 1738 (remember, Freemasonry first became open only in 1717, so it’s not surprising that a pope would feel a bit threatened by this new secret society - especially one rumored to have arisen from Catholic malfeasance). It’s been reinforced several times by various popes since then, but some popes made no effort to speak out against or condemn Freemasons at all during their reign, leading some to believe that the church had loosened up a bit on it. When I say “varying standards,” I don’t necessarily mean those on Freemasons, but many standards outside of that, including Vatican II.
I am not Catholic, so I don’t speak from expertise here. The closest I get is that my wife is Catholic, and we are raising our children Catholic. By the way, by Catholic papal standards, my wife apparently is living in sin, being married to a Methodist with a Jewish mother - let alone a Freemason. To me, it seems strange and unnecessary that anyone is required only to receive the word of God through the funnel of another human being. I admit I was astonished even to learn that no one in church had their Bibles. In my mind, it shouldn’t matter what a pope tells one to do. It is only important what God says to me, through His word and my prayers. I am no less of a Christian for the way I worship than any Catholic. So why should a Catholic feel bound and guilty by a papal bull issued 300 years ago? I don’t know anywhere in the Bible where a man is forbidden to be a Freemason, or a woman to marry outside of the Catholic faith (of course Catholics don’t appear in the Bible at all), or be a Protestant, or even an agnostic.
But that’s just me. As much as you find Freemasonry confusing, the Catholic faith is even more so to me.
No, no, no no.
So why should a Catholic feel bound and guilty by a papal bull issued 300 years ago?
It is the current canon law, reiterated and emphasized by Cardinal Ratzinger speaking officially for the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and approved by Pope John Paul II in 1983, re-emphasized and explained by Cardinal Bernard Law in a letter to US Bishops April 19,1996 which included a study of American Masonry by Professor William Whalen of Purdue University written for the committee.
In my mind, it shouldn’t matter what a pope tells one to do.
In my mind it shouldn't matter what a mason leader tells me to do, but if I were to wish to become a mason, I'd need to change my mind.
You and I are free to become Catholics or Masons, but if we do, we're not free to write our own masonry rules or determine our own theology and Church teaching on faith and morals.
“In my mind it shouldn’t matter what a mason leader tells me to do, but if I were to wish to become a mason, I’d need to change my mind.”
There’s one huge difference right there. A Mason leader can’t order anyone to do anything.
I think we’ve beat this horse into the ground. I know that Catholics have issues with Freemasonry and I find that unfortunate. If the church could truly see us for what we are, I believe they would feel differently. Sadly, there is too much water under the bridge in the form of conspiracy theories, lies, and fantastic tales - and guilt on the part of the Catholic church itself in the history of Freemasonry. But who knows, perhaps someday we will be looked upon in a better light. After all, the Vatican is finally thawing out to the Jews. Maybe we’ll be next.
Thanks much for your insight. It was a pleasure debating with you.
One last thing, I see your signature has a bit of Latin in it. I don’t know what it says, but we Freemasons have a saying in Latin as well:
Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit
“Whom virtue has united, death shall not separate”
Good luck to you D-fendr on your virtuous journey.
I see. So you can just make up rites and vows, print up some certificates, show up whenever you want, rent out the lodge for frat parties..;)
You guys got some authority, some leadership and some rules and requirements for members.
After all, the Vatican is finally thawing out to the Jews.
Whoa! And you think We have misconceptions about You? :) I do hope we understand each other better and I very much hope things can be reconciled in the future.
"Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur" roughly translated means "God is not bound by the sacraments, but we are."
I think we’ve beat this horse into the ground.
I certainly have and I sincerely appreciate your patience.
My very best wishes to you and yours, may God bless you always.
Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit.
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