Posted on 03/28/2008 8:25:48 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Absolutely right. We are co-belligerents in the culture war as well, but that is as far as it should go. Our beliefs and histories are so radically different any attempt at unity denies our core beliefs.
I think a distinction that we often forget is the relationship between church and state. The RCC emerged through state sanction. It grew in authority and power through its connection to the state. During the 1,100 plus years between when it emerged and the Reformation there were large periods where it was as much a political and judicial organization as it was a church. In fact during many of those periods it was the organizing force of European civilization.
The vast majority of Christian churches not associated with the RCC do not have that historic link to the state. It makes for a very different view of the role of the Christian church.
It's always interesting to recall that Protestants have no formal curses written down and preserved in ink and blood against Roman Catholics, while the RCC maintains its violent anathemas against all who believe Christians are justified by faith in Christ alone.
"Rome has not essentially changed. Rome declared that what it said at the time of the Reformation was infallible and could not change. Declared it to be irreformible truth. Rome has not changed and precious truths of God's word are still worth upholding even at the cost of unity even at the cost of being considered "troublemakers" in the religious world. We need to guard the antithesis against the destructive error of Rome." -- Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen"The Reformation is dying daily in our day when the Ecumenical Movement, and other forces like unto it, wish to soften the antithesis with Rome, today. I want to assure you that it's not my pugnacious debating nature that makes me say we must exalt that antithesis and guard it. It's my love for the Lord Jesus Christ and the purity of His word.
I think that is a great example of the church state connection. The greatest power the RCC had prior to the Reformation was to declare that salvation would be denied to those that didn't comply with what it said. Even Kings submitted for fear of excommunication.
The Scriptures were not available to all and people believed most things the RCC claimed. Once the Scriptures began to be more available more and more Christians began to understand the personal nature of The Gospel.
That's well said and probably a good explanation of American tradition.
We do share a common belief in the sanctity of life, protection of marriage and other social concerns. Our views of Scripture and history are radically different. I will argue with RC's all day long not because I "hate" them, but because I know they are wrong in their understanding of The Gospel.
It's hard to understand your Church's stuff because it's like reading a brief from a criminal attorney. You have to start out knowing what the definition of "is" is and it seems to change everyday. ;-0
Fair enough.
But you didn’t answer my question - how come you guys don’t do that anymore? I used to find them kind of interesting to read.
I think the posters who normally put up those threads are taking a break. The discussions get just as heated. I have a hard time with Revelation. I find if I spend too much time focused on eschatology I begin seeing signs the world is ending tomorrow. It might, but I rather focus my planning beyond tomorrow.
You must have read my mind. :-)
I certainly do not hold out much hope for reconciliation on FR. I don't consider that sentiment to be to be vitriolic hatred, and you probably don't either. If you're more optomistic than me, more power to you.
I would go further than you regarding "reconciliation". Forget about the relative unimportance of FR in the big picture, I don't hold out hope for "reconciliation" ever under the only terms the RCC deems acceptable. Cooperation? Yes! "Reconciliation"? No!
Further, under the terms of the RCC I think it would be a disaster for Christianity.
I do think there are people who spend a majority of their time on FR deriding Catholicism. Absolutely. If you don't, you're not reading the same threads I am. I consider that to be a realistic evaluation, but not vitriolic hatred - do you?
Well spoken. May I borrow it with one minor change?
I do think there are people who spend a majority of their time on FR deriding Protestantism. Absolutely. If you don't, you're not reading the same threads I am. I consider that to be a realistic evaluation, but not vitriolic hatred - do you?
I do think there is a deep hatred for Catholicism. Not Catholics, I hope not. I don't assume that of anyone. But hatred of the Church? Yes, I do think there is. The descriptives used for the Church frequently used here bear that out and I don't see how you could fail to see them. In any event, believing that there are those who hate Catholicism is not, in itself, a hateful comment. Do you think it is?
No I don't believe your observation is hateful. Once again I could change the words "Catholic" and "Catholicism" to "Protestant" and "protestantism". Is that a hateful observation?
Scripture is True when it says of men that, without life in Christ and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, man is seeing yet blind, hearing but deaf, living but dead. No man can be argued into the kingdom of God nor convinced of the Truth. God calls those whom He has chosen - we are worse than unable to save them unless He has chosen them.
How long should we try to convince the RCs of the truth?
AMEN! Beautifully stated.
How long should we try to convince the RCs of the truth?
For the sake of the Gospel, forever. For the sake of the RCC, a little less.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves" -- Isaiah 28:14-15"Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
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