Posted on 03/15/2008 10:17:55 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper
More than once during these talks I referred to Luther and what always occurred to me as his destructive influence. I pointed out that even in such an admirable book as Rohan Butler's “The Roots of National Socialism” the spiritual origins of Nazism and Luther's influence had not been given the necessary importance. Then I was asked if I would be prepared to elaborate to them—about a dozen of the very senior boys, that is—my own views on Luther and Lutheranism. I agreed—with the proviso that they would be my own views and nothing else. Admittedly, I had read more on Luther and about Luther than on most other subjects. But I wanted to make it quite clear that I would not speak to them with the voice of a great authority, but would merely give them my own interpretation. I told them, moreover, that I should try to prove how dangerous it is to accept legends; and that the picture I had of Luther and his influence was thoroughly contradictory of the customary Luther of the legend.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicapologetics.info ...
You wrote:
“Wow. And they say Obama has a problem with his conspiracy-minded pastor.”
It’s simply true. Until Hitler declared war on the US we had done little for European Jews.
“A number pulled from the ether. It is fiction. Quix says he saved 300,000 and blue-duncan another 250,000 (his numbers are lower since he was busy writing the Magna Carta).”
Jewish historians on the other hand say he saved more than 800,000. Pinchas Lapide and Jeno Levai knew more than Quix or blue-duncan.
“Disprove it.”
Disprove what? Are you honestly asking me to prove that blue-duncan did not write the Magna Carta? Are you kidding?
Okay. MC was written in 1215 and signed on the field of Runneymede. blue-duncan is less than 700 years old (snicker), and therefore, he could not have written the Magna Carta. Also, blue-duncan is not an English baron,or a bishop, or an abbot, and he is not Catholic. All the authors of the MC were English barons, bishops, abbots, and Catholic. Nor was blue-duncan a Knight Templar, or a Welsh or Scots prince either.
So what do we know:
blue-duncan, the poster at Freerepublic.com, did not exist in 1215 and therefore could not have been an author of the document.
blue-duncan, the poster at Freerepublic.com, was not any of them who signed the document and dictated its contents since they have all died.
“Lucky for Pacelli, we know what bad shots those nazis were. If Hitler wanted you dead, you had a pretty good chance of surviving. If you were a sympathizer, that is, and not a Jew.”
Wow, the usual nonsense from the anti-Catholic side. Hitler wanted Pius XII dead. It was his own men who more than once found ways to thwart his orders or demands because they knew killing the pope would damage their cause because it would be an absolute given the Nazis committed the crime.
“Obviously, Pacelli didn’t need an army. He not only survived; he THRIVED into decrepitude!”
He survived because of God’s mercy and that’s the only reason any of us would survive a war.
“”Easily?” That really begs the question.”
What question? And the fact that Hitler easily had the power to kill Pius - no one doubts that - does not mean his own officers had the desire to carry out that order.
“Why didn’t Hitler kill Pacelli? Why are there no stories about death threats or evil plots against Pacelli, etc., if Hitler hated him so much?’
There are such stories. http://www.powells.com/biblio?show=HARDCOVER:SALE:9780306814686:20.95
And if you read the Milan newspaper (gee, how’s your Italian?), Il Giornale, July 5, 1998, you’ll see that they printed the contents of a document from Hitler demanding the murder of Pius XII and all the Roman cardinals in the Vatican. The operation was to be called “Rabat-Fohn” and carried out by the “Florian Geyer” SS division. By the way, the document gives the reason for the ordered assassination: “The Papal Protest in Favor of the Jews.” This is discussed in several books.
“The answer is obvious. Pacelli was a willing and useful tool in the hands of national socialism. He was protected.”
No, he was protected by God and the prayers of the faithful.
“Oh, dear! Now we’ve gone and exposed another hole in the story. I suppose we should prepare ourselves for some “long-lost documents” that will soon emerge which reveal “for the first time anywhere” intricate death threats made against the slumbering Pacelli by all those inept nazis he saluted.”
Nope. The documents are already public information. Ever read the testimony of SS General Wolfe? He was spoke about the orders from Hitler to kidnap Pius XII and kill all the cardinals in 1972 and 1984. This is old news. It’s history. Why don’t you know it?
Well, you know, one’s heresy is another’s flirtation. Though, a good Catholic girl would have a hard time converting me.
Actually, I find it amusing that FDR or America is even discussed at all. It’s like....
The Pope blah blah blah.
Your President didn’t do squat.
It is nothing more than a moral relevatism argument that comes out of nothing more and nothing less than a justification of the Pope. Who cares what FDR did. It has nothing to do with what the Pope did or didn’t do.
I won’t if you won’t.
Well, what do you EXPECT people to think, Titanites?
Anymore I expect people to think the absolute worst that they can without giving any benefit of the doubt.
You wrote:
“I won’t if you won’t.”
Lol! Deal.
Even if I were a Catholic, I would see that picture for what it is, priest giving the sieg heil. I pray it isn’t, but who can really know?
So, jump to the worst conclusion possible? Not this Christian.
I bet most people who see that picture jump to the same conclusion.
Who cares? Jumping to conclusions isn't something that Christians should be doing.
Sola scriptura:
Deut 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Martin Luther is in serious trouble.
I have this thing called a free choice
Sorry friend, but you do not. The LORD, and HE alone, is sovereign.
Well, I am talking to you. ;^)
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