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Martin Luther: Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor
Catholic Apologetics ^ | Peter F. Wiener

Posted on 03/15/2008 10:17:55 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper

More than once during these talks I referred to Luther and what always occurred to me as his destructive influence. I pointed out that even in such an admirable book as Rohan Butler's “The Roots of National Socialism” the spiritual origins of Nazism and Luther's influence had not been given the necessary importance. Then I was asked if I would be prepared to elaborate to them—about a dozen of the very senior boys, that is—my own views on Luther and Lutheranism. I agreed—with the proviso that they would be my own views and nothing else. Admittedly, I had read more on Luther and about Luther than on most other subjects. But I wanted to make it quite clear that I would not speak to them with the voice of a great authority, but would merely give them my own interpretation. I told them, moreover, that I should try to prove how dangerous it is to accept legends; and that the picture I had of Luther and his influence was thoroughly contradictory of the customary Luther of the legend.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicapologetics.info ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholicism; christians; hitler; holocaust; israel; jews; judaism; luther; lutheran; martinluther; nazi; nazism; protestantism
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To: beachdweller

Free will.


661 posted on 03/16/2008 11:38:24 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("...millions hate what they mistakenly think that the Catholic Church is." ~ Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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To: big'ol_freeper
Free will.

Good answer.

662 posted on 03/16/2008 11:54:09 AM PDT by GOPJ (Obama's Rev shows blacks too can be hateful small minded bigots. Toss white guilt-it's a new day.)
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To: big'ol_freeper
The root of ALL evil is Satan.

Yes, true, but in this world Satan, like God must work through the beings here... that's why this story is interesting.

663 posted on 03/16/2008 12:11:32 PM PDT by GOPJ (Obama's Rev shows blacks too can be hateful small minded bigots. Toss white guilt-it's a new day.)
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To: defconw

No, sometimes I feel like Christians are as divided into sects as Muslims, and sometimes come close to being as violent with each other as they do. I’m a Methodist (or more of a lapsed methodist), and have relatives that are Catholic, Lutheran, or others. I have to say I really don’t care much for organized religion (especially considering the caliber of the clergy I see nowadays), but prefer a personal relationship with God.


664 posted on 03/16/2008 12:16:43 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: big'ol_freeper

I am constantly stunned that very few seem to take Hitler’s association woth the Theosophist Society as pivotal in his “religious” leanings. The man was an out and out Satanist no matter what he might have said in public.

Mel


665 posted on 03/16/2008 1:09:38 PM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: big'ol_freeper
Sorry it contains a lot of big words, but with a careful reading I am sure even you can grasp it...j/k

What does j/k stand for? Jerk?

666 posted on 03/16/2008 1:13:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Titanites
Read "The Popes Against the Jews: the Vatican's Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism" by David I. Kertzer.

The anti-semitism at the heart of the magisterium dates back far further than Pacelli.

667 posted on 03/16/2008 1:17:20 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: big'ol_freeper; beachdweller
Is God powerless to hold Satan in check?

Is Satan a created being?

Is Satan autonomous?

Can Satan trump God?

You simply haven't thought this through to the end. And the end is always God's purpose in creating in the first place -- for His glory and the welfare of His family.

"In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: fear Him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, fear Him." -- Luke 12:1-5

Who is Christ speaking of here? Satan or God? Who has the power to cast you into hell, or to redeem you?

Read the verses that follow this lesson, which are also found in Matthew 10. These verses are in the midst of Christ telling His flock that God loves them so much that the hairs on their head are all numbered.

668 posted on 03/16/2008 1:36:50 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: big'ol_freeper
You hope. But no..I just recognized a childish reaction.

naw. I think I hit a nerve. that's wonderful.

669 posted on 03/16/2008 1:47:58 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

j/k = joking


670 posted on 03/16/2008 1:50:28 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("...millions hate what they mistakenly think that the Catholic Church is." ~ Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Campion; sandyeggo; Petronski; vladimir998
Read "The Popes Against the Jews: the Vatican's Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism" by David I. Kertzer.

No thanks.

    Kertzer's prosecutorial stance leads him to omit key facts and, at times, to very tortured arguments. He concludes, for example, that there was a Vatican "campaign" to popularize the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion because a French priest (whom he is sure had a close personal relationship with the pope because he was made--are you ready?--a Monsignor!) did do just that in the 1920's. This is to ignore the fact that another French priest, Fr. Pierre Charles, SJ, wrote an article in the 1930's thoroughly debunking the forgery which was picked up in Jesuit journals in Europe and America. And with regard to the discussion between the Vatican Secretary of State and the German ambassador in 1943, which some scholars believe led the Germans to end their deportations of the Jews of Rome, Kertzer omits the telling detail that the deportations did stop on the day of that conversation, however it is interpreted, and that the Jews of Rome went into hiding, in large part in the monasteries and convents of the city, with the knowledge of the Vatican, which regularly supplied them with food to feed the hidden Jews.

    This book may have been begun as serious scholarship, but it ended up as anything but, which is a loss for all of us, Jews and Catholics alike, since the author is capable of much better work than exhibited here.


671 posted on 03/16/2008 1:52:46 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The anti-semitism at the heart of the magisterium dates back far further than Pacelli.

A new day a new lie from you. Keep it up...you are exposing yourself beautifully.

672 posted on 03/16/2008 1:56:05 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Titanites

You have rebuked again—and beautifully—those who pump lies into these threads out of their hatred of Catholicism and Catholics.

And they do this on Palm Sunday, claiming to act in the name of Christ!

God help them.


673 posted on 03/16/2008 1:58:59 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

No...hitting a nerve is something like the Red Sox winning two World Series in the 21st Century, while the Yank-offs have not won any, and show no signs of being able to, leaving Hank Steinbrenner to foam at the mouth spouting incoherently.

A post on a religion thread with absolutely no intellectual thought behind it is hard pressed to even tickle a nerve let alone hit it.


674 posted on 03/16/2008 2:01:06 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("...millions hate what they mistakenly think that the Catholic Church is." ~ Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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Comment #675 Removed by Moderator

To: Petronski
You have rebuked again—and beautifully—those who pump lies into these threads out of their hatred of Catholicism and Catholics.

When one is committed to the precept that the Pope is the anti-Christ, I suppose they will be stuck in an endless cycle of trying to demonstrate they are right. Those who do so need our prayers.

676 posted on 03/16/2008 2:16:29 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites

It’s rather sad that very often those who hate the Catholic Church think they love Christ (or do they suffer from an elevated sense of self...another thread), even though their understanding of Him is limited, but at the same time the despise His Church. In the end, to hate His Church is to hate Him.


677 posted on 03/16/2008 2:25:51 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("...millions hate what they mistakenly think that the Catholic Church is." ~ Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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To: Titanites; wmfights; xzins; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Quix; the_conscience; ...
Have Catholic apologists stopped giving attribution for the quotations they use?

While maybe you would hope we'd assume those paragraphs were written by God, they were actually from the pen of (someone no doubt without an axe to grind) Eugene J. Fisher, Associate Director, Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, USA.

And once again everyone is out of step but Rome. The Jews lie. Cornwell lies. Kertzer lies. Goldhagen lies. The six million dead Jews lie.

What could Pacelli do? His hands were tied. Nearly a billion followers listening for guidance, but his lips were sealed because, as we've been told by RCs on this forum, "It would have been WORSE for the Jews if the pope had spoken up!"

You have to wonder how many dead Jews believe that lie.

678 posted on 03/16/2008 3:04:50 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: big'ol_freeper
"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. " -- Psalm 119:104

679 posted on 03/16/2008 3:08:25 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

It’s too bad that you totally violate the Psalm and adopt falsehood.


680 posted on 03/16/2008 3:10:15 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("...millions hate what they mistakenly think that the Catholic Church is." ~ Archbishop Fulton Sheen)
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