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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Campion; sandyeggo; Petronski; vladimir998
Read "The Popes Against the Jews: the Vatican's Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism" by David I. Kertzer.

No thanks.

    Kertzer's prosecutorial stance leads him to omit key facts and, at times, to very tortured arguments. He concludes, for example, that there was a Vatican "campaign" to popularize the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion because a French priest (whom he is sure had a close personal relationship with the pope because he was made--are you ready?--a Monsignor!) did do just that in the 1920's. This is to ignore the fact that another French priest, Fr. Pierre Charles, SJ, wrote an article in the 1930's thoroughly debunking the forgery which was picked up in Jesuit journals in Europe and America. And with regard to the discussion between the Vatican Secretary of State and the German ambassador in 1943, which some scholars believe led the Germans to end their deportations of the Jews of Rome, Kertzer omits the telling detail that the deportations did stop on the day of that conversation, however it is interpreted, and that the Jews of Rome went into hiding, in large part in the monasteries and convents of the city, with the knowledge of the Vatican, which regularly supplied them with food to feed the hidden Jews.

    This book may have been begun as serious scholarship, but it ended up as anything but, which is a loss for all of us, Jews and Catholics alike, since the author is capable of much better work than exhibited here.


671 posted on 03/16/2008 1:52:46 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites

You have rebuked again—and beautifully—those who pump lies into these threads out of their hatred of Catholicism and Catholics.

And they do this on Palm Sunday, claiming to act in the name of Christ!

God help them.


673 posted on 03/16/2008 1:58:59 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Titanites; wmfights; xzins; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Quix; the_conscience; ...
Have Catholic apologists stopped giving attribution for the quotations they use?

While maybe you would hope we'd assume those paragraphs were written by God, they were actually from the pen of (someone no doubt without an axe to grind) Eugene J. Fisher, Associate Director, Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, USA.

And once again everyone is out of step but Rome. The Jews lie. Cornwell lies. Kertzer lies. Goldhagen lies. The six million dead Jews lie.

What could Pacelli do? His hands were tied. Nearly a billion followers listening for guidance, but his lips were sealed because, as we've been told by RCs on this forum, "It would have been WORSE for the Jews if the pope had spoken up!"

You have to wonder how many dead Jews believe that lie.

678 posted on 03/16/2008 3:04:50 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Titanites; wmfights; xzins; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Quix; the_conscience; ...
A few "other" reviews...

The Vatican's 1998 report "We Remember: A Reflection on the Shoah" purportedly exonerated the Church of complicity in the Holocaust. In "The Popes Against the Jews," David I. Kertzer argues that the report is "not the product of a Church that wants to confront its history." Kertzer's book refutes the Church's thesis that the Holocaust grew out of "an anti-Judaism that was essentially more sociological and political than religious." In fact, Kertzer asserts, those dimensions of European anti-Semitism developed "in no small part due to the efforts of the Roman Catholic Church itself." The racial laws of fascist Italy and the Nuremberg Laws of 1930s Germany, for example, were directly modeled on the Church's own rules governing treatment of Jews: until the collapse of the Papal States in the late 19th century, Jews living in these territories were forced to wear yellow badges and live in ghettos. Kertzer's arguments make for compelling reading because they're presented in story form, based on the actions of the popes themselves. Access to long-sealed Church archives allowed Kertzer to reconstruct some of the most shocking, secret conversations that occurred in the Vatican in the decades leading up to World War II. -- Michael Joseph Gross

Kertzer (history, Brown Univ.) expands on a theme he first developed in The Kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara (LJ 5/1/97). In his latest book, he exposes a trail of anti-Semitic papal policies and practices that stretched from the French Revolution to the era of the Final Solution. Kertzer argues that the modern popes and their minions helped create and perpetuate an anti-Semitic Catholic culture that facilitated the eventual extermination of six million European Jews. He asserts that despite occasional denunciations of the persecution of the Jews, the Roman Curia for political and theological reasons persistently demonized the European Jews by accusing them of such heinous crimes as the ritualistic murder of Christian children. His thesis is grounded on a thorough examination of recently released Vatican archival material and a penetrating analysis of Catholic journals and newspapers. Kertzer reveals a far more systemic pattern of papal anti-Semitism than even John Cornwell confronts in "Hitler's Pope" (LJ 5/15/99). His book promises to stir up considerable controversy and belongs on the shelves of both public and academic libraries. Jim Doyle, Sara Hightower Regional Lib., Rome, GA

"Important...Fascinating...a riveting piece of historical detective work." -- The New York Times

"Scrupulous...Significant and compelling." —The Washington Post

"The material is dynamite." -- The Times (London)

"Popes Against the Jews"...demolishes the findings of "We Remember." -- The Boston Globe

"This reviewer is grateful to Kertzer for having written such a compelling narrative. His thesis is shocking and disturbing...

"An important book." -- The Irish Times

"Riveting." -- Globe & Mail (Toronto)

"Kertzer [has the] extraordinary ability to present the most painful, religiously radioactive material with a coolness that makes his findings...devastating...Its superb, meticulous scholarship is a benchmark by which other books on the subject must now be judged." The Forward

"A profoundly well-documented book...It is a work of brilliant narrative quality, an oppressive, unremitting and enraging report on what may be the most lethal period of official and quasi-official Catholic anti-Semitism." -- Providence Journal


684 posted on 03/16/2008 3:20:56 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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