Posted on 03/09/2008 8:33:45 PM PDT by Pyro7480
"At that time Jesus said to the multitudes of the Jews: 'Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.' The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered: 'I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me. But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Amen, amen I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.' The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself? Jesus answered: 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him, and do keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.' The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said to them: 'Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.' They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple."
These may seem like minor points, but they are worth noting.
Thank you for the post.
Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
a) (Qal)
1) -——
a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
b) to come about, come to pass
2) to come into being, become
a) to arise, appear, come
b) to become
1) to become
2) to become like
3) to be instituted, be established
3) to be
a) to exist, be in existence
b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
d) to accompany, be with
b) (Niphal)
1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
2) to be done, be finished, be gone
The Hebrew does not have the verb “to be” as we do in English.
Jehova says that he will become what he will become, in the context of meeting Isreal’s needs.
+++++++++++++++++
Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Before:
1) before, formerly
Was:
) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made
Am:
1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present
Before, formerly, Abraham was (father of faith). [Period! end of statement!] (Today, now, at the present) I am (the path of faith).
IOW, previously Abraham was the key, but now I am!
And that statement sent the Pharisees into a tizzy!
If Jesus had claimed to be God they would have thought him loony and dismissed him.
Funny thing is that John 8 is a strong testament that Jesus is the son of God, not God, and that the religious leaders and traditions then did not recognize or appreciate Jesus for who he really was...just like you and the RC today!
How contemporaneously familiar.
Funny, I could characterize you in the same way. You fail to recognize for what He really is. He is the Son of God, but He is also God - God the Son.
You think part of the New Testament is a forgery? Ok...
So you apparently don't believe basic Christian beliefs, but yet have read some of the NT.
So what is your belief system?
You need to learn context. You take isolated verses from the high priestly prayer (Chapter 17) and try to make a comparison with Jesus’ lecture to the Pharisees from Chapter 10? Totally different contexts and points being made. Further, when he tells the Apostles to “be one” he is telling them to be one among themselves just as he and the Father are one. This is the high standard of unity he is stressing. It is completely possible for them through the Holy Spirit. John 10:30 (”I and the Father are one”) and John 1:1 (”..and the Word WAS God”) mean exactly what the words clearly say, Jesus is God.
No, he is not God. That much is obvious. Now you're doing exactly what you were accusing me of - "slaping verses together to make them say exactly what they don’t say."
I haven’t seen a response to #112, which makes it an open and shut case.
Easier to read if your a cretin. Don’t you miss the majesty of the language?
Yikes! Why so anti-Christ?
You wrote, “All you need to do is read G-d’s law.”
And if you’re honest with yourself, you’ll know that you’ve broken all 10 commandments, and many of the other laws. You, as do I, need a Savior. By God’s grace, One has been given.
(It's "you're"...)
You're obviously a connoisseur of "the language" spoken in England many centuries ago, but I prefer to savor the meaning of what Christ said in my own language to playing with myself over archaic "thees", "thys", and "sayeths".
Each to their own, I guess.
It is not more real or meaningful for me to imagine Christ spoke like a street hustler with a sixth grade reading level. I admit that this has become the standard for excellence in our new secular state, but I cannot abide it in our liturgy which exhorts us to a higher state of being. But I certainly intend no criticism — the majesty is in the message. You’re quite right, it is only my preference. It works for me. Oh yeah, “thee” and “thine” aren’t so easily confused as “your” and “you’re”.
Prophesy is from God, not man:
The Spirit of God was upon David.
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. – I Samuel 16:13
So David fled, and escaped, and came to Samuel to Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naioth. And it was told Saul, saying, Behold, David [is] at Naioth in Ramah.
And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing [as] appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
And when it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also.
Then went he also to Ramah, and came to a great well that [is] in Sechu: and he asked and said, Where [are] Samuel and David? And [one] said, Behold, [they be] at Naioth in Ramah. And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, [Is] Saul also among the prophets? – I Samuel 19:18-24
And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: - Joel 2:28
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. – Hebrews 1:1-4
Any notion that David was not a prophet of God is
—UNBIBLICAL
—IRRATIONAL
—UNBELIEVING
and a long list of other things.
Sheesh . . . where do folks come up with such hogwash . . .
Oh, right . . . I know where from . . .
Sigh.
Truly, He has said that He cannot lie, that He does not change, etc.
However, I draw the line at any mortal determinations of what God cannot do based on man's reasoning instead of the words of God.
We are merely denizens of the Creation, He is the Creator.
Man is not the measure of God.
Whenever a mortal projects his own thoughts onto God, he ends up imagining a small "god" his puny, mortal mind can comprehend. This is what I call "anthropomorphizing" God.
Or to put it another way, God thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways.
There is only one Great Commandment.
INDEED!
AMEN! AMEN!
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