Posted on 03/09/2008 8:33:45 PM PDT by Pyro7480
"At that time Jesus said to the multitudes of the Jews: 'Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.' The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered: 'I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me. But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Amen, amen I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.' The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself? Jesus answered: 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him, and do keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.' The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said to them: 'Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.' They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple."
"And after those sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will disappear and vanish."
Which says nothing about a Messiah... or his death. Furthermore, nowhere in any text prior to the New Testament does it ever state that the Messiah is supposed to be G-d.
As for Isaiah 53:12...
"Assuredly, I will give him the many as his portion, He shall receive the multitude as his spoil. For he exposed himself to death And was numbered among the sinners, Whereas he bore the guilt of the many And made intercession for sinners."
Again, where is the reference stating that the Messiah as G-d is supposed to die???
And John was written after all the events around Jesus's life were OVER!
So, of course he'll write ANYTHING to further his position. For if he doesn't, HE becomes the liar.
Umm, you forget that this psalm was written by David. It is his lament to the Lord, not a prediction of the future.
After all, King David was not a prophet.
According to Numbers 23:19
“G-d is not man to be capricious,
Or mortal to change His mind.
Would He speak and not act,
Promise and not fulfill?”
Ergo, G-d is NOT a man, nor is G-d mortal.
End of story. Jesus was man AND mortal. Thus not G-d.
Further research of Maimonides and his “Guide for the Perplexed” would clear up your misconceptions.
No, as Doubting Thomas said when he saw Jesus after his exit from the tomb, “AHHH! A zombie!!! Burn it!”
:-P
Numbers 23:19
Is it just my imaginiation, or are there a lot more Christianity-related posts on this site lately? I understand that there is a junction of religion and politics, and generally don’t care when people post their views when it comes to the intersection, but over the last week or so, I seem to notice a lot of posts just about Christianity. If my perception is accurate, why is this?
God gave us free will. You can make whatever choice you want.
Why are you using an Old Testament passage description of God when we are discussing the New Testament incarnation...Jesus Christ fully man and fully God (according to several New Testament passages)?
Christ is the archangel Michael. Michael was God’s first creation. Jesus is God’s son.
Jesus is not God.
Given the inability to deal with the eye-witness accounts, that number in the hundreds (if not thousands)...I understand why you would resort to a lame attempt at humor (at least the liberal scholars have attempted lame theories - the swoon theory, the coma and etc.) :)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it....
...10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-14 (New International Version)
Biblical citations, please!
Micah 5:2 says that Jesus was from everlasting (existed uncreated).
John 1 says that Jesus was God ("...and the Word was God - John 1:1)
Can you tell us about the punctuation in the Greek texts?
Oh, there isn’t any?
So any punctuation in the KJV or other English version is private interpretation and devoid of any authority?
So going into the context that the religious leaders are arguing about Abraham being the way of truth, Jesus is responding by telling them that in times past, Abraham was the way but now, today, I am.
Before, Abraham was. Today, I am; not prior to Abraham, I existed.
Repunctuate the verse and it makes sense with the rest of the Bible that CLEARLY says that God is spirit, invisible and the Father of Jesus Christ who is a visible man and died on the cross.
If works made one God and if Jesus is God, then believers are greater than God.
Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
So believers can do greater works than God?
No, but for Jesus to be God, then believers could do greater works than God, right?
You are saying then that God died but raised himself from the dead.
The Bible clearly calls Jesus a man. How do you explain that?
But the cannot contradict each other can they?
Matthew says that Jesus’ beginning (genesis) was at his birth.
The book of Genesis says that in the beginning God created the heavens and earth. Doesn’t say Jesus.
The Bible isn’t sloppy in the way it uses words. When it means God is says God. When it means Jesus it says Jesus.
It doesn’t mix the two as men do.
God clearly called Jesus his son and Jesus clearly called God his father.
They knew who they were.
Sorry but you are very wrong.
Aside from the theological ideas of whether or not God can override free will, the Bible clearly states a couple limits of God:
God cannot lie, God cannot be tempted, God cannot be seen by man (he is invisible!)
Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
hn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. (NOT THREE!)
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: (NOT THREE!)
Bible 2, Pyro 0.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
So Jesus prayed to God (himself?) that the disciples should be one just like he (Jesus) was one with God?
If being one means being God, then the disciples were God too, right?
Further, “He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.” (John 5:23) Thus to reject Jesus is to reject God. And to suffer the consequences.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
It doesn't say he that denies Jesus is God is anti christ is says that those who deny him as Christ is anti christ. Making Jesus into God denies the differences in them and makes one into an antichrist.
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