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To: Salvation; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; hosepipe; wmfights; magisterium
Er, if you don't mind:

the Catholic Church is the Light of Truth

God is Light. The Catholic Church is not God. The Catholic Church is not Light.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - I John 1:5

We Christians, all of us, are children of the Light.

Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; - Hebrews 1:3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:1-13

And that is the part that matters:

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. – John 3:19

For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness. - Psalms 18:28

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. – Matthew 5:14-16

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light: - Ephesians 5:8

The LORD [is] my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD [is] the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalms 27:1

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. – John 8:12

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. – I Thessalonians 5:5

So let us remember this:

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. – 1 John 2:8-10

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

58 posted on 02/28/2008 9:37:09 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Just for starters on your post —

To whom are the prayers addressed to during the Mass?

Only one prayer is addressed someone — who is that?


61 posted on 02/28/2008 9:41:15 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Wonderful post.

I love seeing Scripture as our reference.

65 posted on 02/28/2008 9:49:39 AM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Alamo-Girl

The Church is the body of Christ, by Church meaning all the baptized. You seem to reject the very concept of hierarchy which to me seems implicit in the Bible. At minimum we have the teachers and we have the taught; those who teach the truth and those who teach falsehood. Not all are equal in their possesion of the truth.


67 posted on 02/28/2008 9:53:07 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: Alamo-Girl
God is the Light. Indeed, you ar correct. But He identifies Himself with the Church He established. He said to Saul of Tarsus: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Did Saul persecute Christ directly? No. Jesus had ascended to Heaven years before. Saul was persecuting the Church, yet Jesus equates that to the persecution of Himself directly!

Since you pinged me, you must have already read my post #50, which is where I came into the discussion. Would you care to elaborate on how doctrines only 500 years old are what Christ intended, while doctrines clearly traceable (especially through the Early Fathers' expositions and sermons on Scripture and Tradition) all the way back to the Apostolic Age are "self-evidently" not of His will?

Indeed, just as Jesus identified the persecutors of His Church as those who would persecute Him, so too, if the Church is identifiable with Christ, and is the "pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1Timothy 3:15), those who resist the Church's authentic teaching are no less persecutors of Christ. Certainly this is so at least at the point when they are aware of the suspicion that those doctrines are, in fact, correct,and they fail nevrtheless to embrace them. They are, in the same deliberate action, failing to embrace Christ! Even when a person denies authentic doctrine with absolutely no malice, under an invincible ignorance concerning them, he or she is still objectively in error, and thwarts the proper establishment of the Kingdom. That God might not hold such truly ignorant people at fault is hardly consolation to them after their deaths, when they find out the true impact of their "well-intentioned" actions.

70 posted on 02/28/2008 9:55:22 AM PST by magisterium
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