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ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL
Apprising Ministries ^ | January 16, 2008 | Ken Silva

Posted on 02/28/2008 6:25:40 AM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg

ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

In their lust for unity the Emergent Church and post-evangelical “Protestants” are right now embracing the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination. But the issue is simple: If, as taught the Church of Rome, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without “the new birth in baptism” then we are now in hopeless contradiction with the Gospel contained in Holy Scripture.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)

Speaking The Truth In Love

Let me make this as clear as I possibly can for the Roman Catholics who may read this work in Christ from Apprising Ministries. I personally am former member of the Church of Rome and care very deeply about those, such as the majority of my own family line, who are trapped in this apostate man-made system of religion known as Roman Catholicism. I also fully realize that what I say may sound “unloving” and possibly even “harsh.” However, there is just nothing that I can do about that. By not telling the Truth we aren’t doing anyone a service.

(Excerpt) Read more at apprising.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; culturalsuicide; emergent; gnostic; gospel; itsfuntobeabigot; letsbashcatholics
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To: sandyeggo
[ the Church, before hosepipe's construct of A.D. 313, considered baptism to be necessary to salvation ]

Which churchs?.. To think all the churches(the early ones AND the later ones) agreed on everything even baptism is naieve.. You need ot get out more.. :)

141 posted on 02/28/2008 12:16:35 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: Alamo-Girl
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is what matters and that is only done according to the will of God.

AMEN!

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." -- Acts 10:43-48


142 posted on 02/28/2008 12:18:27 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Thank you oh so very much for sharing your insights!

He is the Living Water.

Precisely so.

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, [and] hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. – Jeremiah 2:13

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) – John 7:38-39

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. – I Corinthians 12:13

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

To God be the glory!

143 posted on 02/28/2008 12:19:13 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: wmfights
All I had to do was see a "church father" quoted to not be swayed. I do value their thoughts, but not near as much as Scripture.

Yep.

"Abandoned...by the Word of God, they flee for aid to antiquity." -- John Calvin, "The Necessity of Reforming the Church."

144 posted on 02/28/2008 12:23:56 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; sandyeggo
John 20:31

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The Jews thought in the OT that circumcision saved them, but it was merely the outward sign of an inward repentance which is actually what caused God to save them. Baptism is just our outward sign.

145 posted on 02/28/2008 12:25:08 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings
If the water is what saves us, then we would all have to make pilgrimages to Israel and bathe in the Jordan river, like other sects believe, such as those in India who have to go swim in the Ganges once before they die..

It is faith in Christ, as our Savior, that saves. Baptism is an outward expression of that belief. Which is why we are buried with Him in baptism so that we are alive in Him forevermore. He is the Living Water.

AMEN!

"The first object of (the sacraments) is to assist our faith towards God; the second, to testify our confession before men." -- John Calvin, "Inst. IV:xiv.13

146 posted on 02/28/2008 12:26:58 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Indeed, no one controls God.

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

147 posted on 02/28/2008 12:27:27 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Claud
Exactly, although I'd mix what you said and say the Church is a visible institution filled with believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit! :)

Well if you believe THE GOSPEL and want to make a public profession of Faith you can come join the Baptists and be in the visible Church. :-)

But why is there any reason to believe the "indwelt believers" who presumably made up the Church in the first place (including the Fathers) would have gone so far astray on this?

I can throw out a bunch of theories. Look at what happened to the Lord's Supper.

It appears God can, in certain limited circumstances, give even to men the power to teach with a charism that He alone has.

With God anything is possible.

Mathias is a great case in point. The Apostles replaced Judas with Mathias, but God replaced Judas with Paul. It is all from God, not man. We always seem to find a way to screw it up.

148 posted on 02/28/2008 12:27:42 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The only "condition" for our salvation is Jesus Christ on the cross whose blood was shed for His sheep.

Why "only"? Unless you are born of water in the spirit, you cannot inherit the Kingdom. Seems to me to be a condition.

Our baptism is by the Holy Spirit who employs water as a sign and symbol of our status as His adopted children. The water does not save anyone. God alone by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit saves the fallen sinner. Take your eyes off the material word and raise them to the spiritual world. That's where salvation resides.

Ah, but not merely a sign and symbol! The Holy Spirit employs water as an external sign and symbol of an internal/spiritual regeneration.

Of course water itself does not save anyone. Of course the regeneration of the Holy Spirit is what saves. But what John is saying here is that they go together. Water *and* the Spirit. Sacramental theology 101. :)

149 posted on 02/28/2008 12:28:38 PM PST by Claud
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To: Lord_Calvinus
AMEN!!!

Blessed clarity and Godly-discernment.

150 posted on 02/28/2008 12:28:54 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: magisterium; Alamo-Girl
[ Yet they all differ in their doctrines. The Church is the "pillar and bulwark of the truth." This was guaranteed by Christ Himself. therefore, the true Church must be unified in doctrine ]

The church is one in SPIRIT, not in doctrine.. The letter of doctrine KILLS it is only the Spirit that gives life.. to the church.. You would know that if you "Sola (knew) Scriptura"..

151 posted on 02/28/2008 12:29:24 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: wmfights
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!
152 posted on 02/28/2008 12:29:25 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: wmfights; sandyeggo
If you go throughout Scripture you do not find babies being baptized.

Argument from silence, a common tactic by many Protestants but it is only applicable to show ignorance of a subject. And even in that instance, to only show POSSIBLE ignorance of a subject. Affirmative statements can NOT be shown via arguments of silence however.

An easy example to show this correct: If arguments from silence could be used to show affirmative statements, then the statement, "Paul didn't believe in the virgin birth" can be shown simply from the fact that Paul never wrote of the Virgin Birth.

Are you going to say that Paul didn't believe in the Virgin Birth?

Of course you won't. Similarly, the argument, "If you go throughout Scripture you do not find babies being baptized" cannot be used to support the hypothesis, "Early Christians didn't baptize babies.

153 posted on 02/28/2008 12:29:46 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Evidently you have presumed that I am anti-Catholic. That would be a false presupposition

No, I do not think that at all. The entire content of my post, to which you responded and now, to that response I respond, merely pointed out the excess of what is implicit in your final line: "To God be the glory." I certainly would say that it is obvious you do not agree with, or cannot understand, my take on this, but that alone hardly makes you "anti-Catholic" in the usual understanding of the term.

But I would still like you to credibly bridge the gap between the Reformation doctrines (which did not exist prior to the 16th Century) and the teachings of the Apostolic Age, demonstrating, especially, that they are unarguably the willed teaching of Christ, despite the 1500 year disconnect. And to do so in light of the fact that the Church was unarguably founded by Christ as the "pillar and bulwark of the truth," whose mission was, presumably, to extend throughout the Christian Era, not merely from the time beginning in the 16th Century. How could He, as God, will such a Church, refuse to protect it from error as He promised to do, and then suddenly remember His promise some 1500 years later? How can an omniscient, omnipotent God make such a faux pas?

154 posted on 02/28/2008 12:30:33 PM PST by magisterium
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To: blue-duncan
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights and those beautiful Scriptures!
155 posted on 02/28/2008 12:30:47 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dear sister in Christ! And thank you for that beautiful Scripture!
156 posted on 02/28/2008 12:32:42 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: 1000 silverlings
Excellent point, dear brother in Christ. Thank you so much for the Scripture!
157 posted on 02/28/2008 12:33:46 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: wmfights

I believe that Arius advanced pretty much the same argument. If you go back to Miller, you may see that each side claimed to represent the original teachings of the Church. Arius was in fact the one introducing novel doctrines but he could not more be convinced of that than Arius. One reason for Luther to oppose a council was that he didn’t want to be, like Arius, outmanned at a council. Instead he hid behind the German princes who opposed the council because they opposed the emperor who wanted the council.


158 posted on 02/28/2008 12:37:17 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: FourtySeven; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
Jewish baby boys were all circumcised at 8 days, but they still had other requirements put on them and the concept of an "age of responsibility" comes from the idea that they, both boys and girls, achieve personhood at about 12 years old.

Since it's obvious that a baby cannot choose to believe in Christ, the parents have a duty to make sure that he or she is brought up to learn about Him.

159 posted on 02/28/2008 12:37:52 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: wmfights
Well if you believe THE GOSPEL and want to make a public profession of Faith you can come join the Baptists and be in the visible Church. :-)

LOL...see the problem there is, aside from theological considerations, I'm Italian. I have a distinct fondness for certain types of fermented and distilled liquids which shall remain nameless. ;)

We got time...shoot me some theories. What caused the Great Apostasy?

160 posted on 02/28/2008 12:38:20 PM PST by Claud
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