How Mormons Saw Romney -- In wooing evangelicals, he made some fellow LDS members uneasy

Newsweek ^ | February 8, 2008 | Sally Atkinson

[Zakeet]

In his pursuit of the presidency, Mitt Romney held fast to his Mormon faith, though his religion remains controversial with evangelicals and some other Christians. But his determined (and ultimately futile) wooing of evangelicals led him to make some statements that didn't quite square with Mormon beliefs and culture. And the effort itself may have deepened the impression of him as inauthentic—even to some fellow Mormons.

Early in his presidential bid, Romney was asked what he thought of polygamy. Prompted by what they considered a divine revelation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued the practice more than a century ago, and the church distances itself from polygamist "fundamentalists." But Romney went one step further, saying he couldn't "imagine anything more awful than polygamy." Many Mormons were privately taken aback. Mormons believe that, in its time, "plural marriage" was a commandment from God, and they are, as a group, fiercely proud of their ancestors, hundreds of whom practiced polygamy. (Romney's own great-grandfather had five wives.) LDS church members loathe the polygamy stereotypes and jokes bandied by outsiders. But hearing Romney—the most recognizable face of their faith these days—disavow it in those terms was mildly unsettling to LDS insiders.

Others were puzzled to hear Romney say he reads the Gideon Bible—a version popular with evangelicals: Mormons uniformly study the King James version, in a Salt Lake edition that is cross-referenced to all other Mormon scripture. "Seems like he just figured he had to say the safest, most Protestant thing he could think of—that was kind of annoying," says Russell Arben Fox, a Mormon professor of political science at Friends University in Wichita, Kans.

[colorcountry]

He will?

[Elsie]

He is “one” with God the Father, meaning perfectly unified, as he explained in His intercessory prayer in John.

But... what does 'perfectly unified' mean??

[Dan(9698)]

Elsie will also explain the source of his belief in the Trinity. (Not)

Elsie doesn’t explain anything. He attacks.

[Elsie]

If Joseph was just having teen hormones The Spirit of God would not be testifying of his work.

At LEAST he wasn't having teen Harmons!

[Tennessee Nana]

(You can ask privately, and if I don’t know, I can ask...)
_______________________________________________

DUH no

DU, my beliefs are out in the open in public...

Nothing is hidden and secret...

[Dan(9698)]

He will?

I forgot the (Not). I realize that you just bash, and do not like your beliefs examined.

[Elsie]

colorcounty will explain the source of his belief in the "Trinity".

Hee hee hee... THAT'll keep him busy!

#7

--MormonDude(I sure don't believe that crap!)

[lady lawyer]

Meaning perfectly unified in belief and purpose and obedience. Just as we can become “one” with Him and the Father if we believe and obey.

[Colofornian]

POWG, re your post #169:

(1) Up until the time he became “mayor” of Nauvoo late in his life, would you care to tell us exactly how Joseph Smith earned enough of a living to support 2 to 3 dozen wives & all the kids he had? What was his source of income—income that would need to be an amount by the 1840s about 15-20 times the level of others of his day? [Was an LDS “prophet’s” salary that hefty? In fact would you care to tell us all how much LDS “prophet” Brigham Young was taking in?]

(2) Care to tell us how it is that with a such a large Smith family – with wives needing “personal” revelations that would be recorded as “Scripture” for a proper hit-over-the-head effect + a growing flock to administer + a city to run (in order to issue attacks upon printing presses) + a US presidency to run for in 1844…can you tell us how with all of this going on he still had time to attack Christians of his day?

Joseph Smith: "…for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Questions put to Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Wanna explain then why you ask questions of strangers worthy of addressing about the man you are a disciple of? [History books & online sites have it all] Would you say that Joseph Smith was waging futile battles with people?

(I started to say that Smith was waging futile battles with people who are no more inclined to change their views than he was until I realized he changed his views fairly often.) He went from…

… no mention of a pre-existence in the BoM to a sudden mention of it later;

…no mention of “baptism of the dead” in the 1830s to a late-developing 1840s embracement of it;

…Book of Jacob polygamy is an “abomination” to God to applying it rather liberally to himself;

… describing God being an “everlasting” God in the 1830s to an “exalted-man” god just a year before his death;

…advocating saved creaturehood for mankind to advocating godhood-creator-worship-and-adore-me-as-an-omnipresent-omniscient-omnipotent god less than a year before his death;

…modalism to describe God (all one person revealed in distinct ways) in the original Book of Mormon [LDS leaders have deceptively changed some of these minus any footnotes to deceive all of us…example 1 Nephi 11…verses 18, 21, 32 all changed after Smith’s death…see p. 25 of the original Book of Mormon and compare to a modern-day reprint)

…to tri-theism in other LDS “Scriptures”...

...to a “council of gods” polytheism in the 1840s.

As for you, didn’t you say you were a Mormon “convert” from the Southern Baptist faith of your family? (Does that mean some people are inclined to change their mind -- like you? – but you wanna pre-empt anybody else changing their mind?)

[POWG]

Nope.

[nicmarlo]

Christ is God, as is God the Father. Nobody is ignoring that point. Nor has it been denied, by Joseph or any other Mormon.

Christ's deity has been denied. In fact, according to Mormon doctrine, Jesus is a creation, the product of relations between god and his goddess wife who used to be people from another world (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp. 192, 321, 516, 589). Jesus is the literal spirit brother of Satan/Lucifer as well as each and every person (McConkie, pp, 192, 589). According to Mormon doctrine, God has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine & Covenants, 130:22.) as does his wife and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit human bodies on earth.

These things put Christ down into creature being rather than Creator. Furthermore, according to Mormon doctrine, you don't believe in the trinity, you say they are separate, individual beings. The evangelical, pentecostal, non-denominational, as well as, denominational Christians (such as the Catholics) are in agreement: God is a triune God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One (an analogy can be had as that of an egg: it is 1 egg with three parts: the shell, the yolk, and the egg white), separate but equal, yet One God.

[Elsie]

In ancient languages there was no punctuation or paragraphs. In recent years, archeologists have begun to understand that phrases like “It came to pass” served that function.

Bears repeating.....

---

2 Nephi 3:12     Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins write; and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together,

2 Nephi 3:18      And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.

 

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 27   Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 31    Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together

[Elsie]

Elsie doesn’t explain anything. He attacks.

You got it!

I don't defend when on offense.

You do NOT want an explanation. You merely want to wear us down with your innane requests.

[Elsie]

I realize that you just bash, and do not like your beliefs examined.

(Let's see if HE'LL fight back! That ELSIE is a WUSS!)

[Syncro]

Yep, every Gideon pays their own way

I used to buy boxes of New Testaments to give out.

Even Spanish translation ones, as I met ran across many that only spoke that language.

I even learned a phrase or two of Biblical quotes to say to them.

One time I used those phrases on a Spanish (Spain type, blonde hair) guy and he rattled off a couple of minutes of Spanish.

Har, I had to tell him I didn't speak Spanish, so we conversed in perfect English for a while.

Good for your Son-In-Law, they are one of the best organizations I have ever been associated with, it was a pleasure and an honor.

I also did Bible Studies at the local County Jail for quite some time. Appointed Chaplin to the Jails from my church.

[Tennessee Nana]

The Nicene Creed was never preached by Christ.
_________________________________________

Ripping out pages of the Bible....

John was the best friend of Jesus, and trusted by Jesus to receive the Revelation and yet you dont believe the words of John about the Trinity...1 John 5:1-12

[colorcountry]

If you have questions about the Trinity, there are much better sources than colorcounty. LOL

Try google.

[CommerceComet]

In recent years, archeologists have begun to understand that phrases like “It came to pass” served that function.

Which archeologists? Mormon archeologists with a vested interest in protecting the BOM or secular archeologists with no dog in the fight? The phrase appears once in about every 100 verses in the Bible. There is at least one case in the BOM (Alma 47:11) where it appears three times. What are some other ancient writings where such a phrase occurs with such regularity?

[greyfoxx39]

(And I have some Fundamentalist Friends, my bishop talks to me about it every time I get my temple recommend renewed...)

Number 7, eh, DU?

TEMPLE RECOMMEND QUESTIONS

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

[Tennessee Nana]

No man can “save” himself. I never said that. And, if it was “finished” when Jesus uttered those words, why was a resurrection necessary?
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And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. ..Luke 16:31