Defining Evangelicalism Down

Townhall.com ^ | 2/12/08 | Paul Edwards

[Terriergal]

I hear ya. THere but for God's grace go I. All of us would have been crying out 'crucify him' too... just a few days after welcoming him into the city with praises. Statistically speaking the odds are good you'd do no differently than the average German under the same conditions.

Thank you. I wouldn't be so foolish as to say I know for sure i'd pass that test.

There are always a few Schindlers around, but not nearly enough.

Interestingly enough, he wasn't a believer was he?

And others might castigate him for profiting off of cheap labor and that that was the only reason he saved those Jews. Well, we realize it was more than that. But the stress of it all seems to have ruined him in the end (as I heard).

[Terriergal]

Alex, how can you transform culture when we are told 'enter by the narrow gate' and 'FEW there be that find it.'?

We may win small political battles, but overall we are promised the culture is going south. The battle belongs to the Lord.

Satan can also transform culture, and much more effectively:

What would things look like if Satan actually took over a city? The first frames in our imaginative slide show probably depict mayhem on a massive scale: Widespread violence, deviant sexualities, pornography in every vending machine, churches closed down and worshipers dragged off to City Hall. Over a half-century ago, Donald Grey Barnhouse, pastor of Philadelphia's Tenth Presbyterian Church, gave his CBS radio audience a different picture of what it would look like if Satan took control of a town in America. He said that all of the bars and pool halls would be closed, pornography banished, pristine streets and sidewalks would be occupied by tidy pedestrians who smiled at each other. There would be no swearing. The kids would answer "Yes, sir," "No, ma'am," and the churches would be full on Sunday ... where Christ is not preached.

Not to be alarmist, but it looks a lot like Satan is in charge right now. The enemy has a subtle way of using even the proper scenery and props to obscure the main character. The church, mission, cultural transformation, even the Spirit can become the focus instead of the means for "fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Heb. 12:2).

[Terriergal]

oops that was from

http://www.modernreformation.org/default.php?page=articledisplay&var1=ArtRead&var2=1&var3=main

[Terriergal]

Actually the only ones saying they’re only concerned about homosexuality and abortion are the left. saying it about the right. I would say they are makng use of a little fallacious reasoning.

I don’t like Huckabee either but I don’t think his supporters only care about one or two issues, as a whole.

[farmer18th]

He said that all of the bars and pool halls would be closed, pornography banished, pristine streets and sidewalks would be occupied by tidy pedestrians who smiled at each other. There would be no swearing. The kids would answer "Yes, sir," "No, ma'am," and the churches would be full on Sunday ... where Christ is not preached.

These are the sort of distinctions made by Pastors who are, indeed, ashamed that their preaching of Christ hasn't yielded any of the fruit that would indeed look very similar to the picture being painted. In other words, these are meaningless distinctions made by lazy followers of Christ's message. If we really are following him, the fruit will be seen in the culture itself. If we are filling up stadiums with men raising their hands and hearing "Jesus preached," why are we will electing Obama, Hillary or John McCain? It doesn't follow.

The John MacArthur types are the preachers who don't really want to be tested for signs of regeneration in their flocks--because they know they'll come up short.

[Terriergal]

Ha, Well Jesus was pretty successful then. The whole world seemed to love and accept him and the apostles.

[farmer18th]

Ha, Well Jesus was pretty successful then. The whole world seemed to love and accept him and the apostles.

Forgive me, but that just shows historical ignorance. Prior to Jesus, most of the globe was full of animists, cannibals, infanticides, and worse. After Jesus, the march of civilization has been bringing us closer and closer to the "Kingdom of Heaven" He promised was "at hand." The "government will be upon His shoulder." History has shown that whever His word goes the promises of Deut 28 are played out. To believe something else is to make Christ a "king in waiting," a weakling. John MacArthur preach a weakling Christ and a well-fed pastor with a nice sancturay and a great book and tape ministry.

[Terriergal]

Jan and Paul Crouch are dominionists/believe we can change culture for Christ too.

[farmer18th]

Compare Christ’s lunatic fringe to Mohammed’s, and then choose Maine or Mauritania as your place of residence.

[Terriergal]

Prior to Jesus, most of the globe was full of animists, cannibals, infanticides, and worse.

Yeah now human beings are SO much better. Give me a break.

speaking of historical ignorance and ignorance of the depravity of man and ignorance of Scripture~! Is that semipelagianism I smell?

Rick Warren is a great success in 'transforming culture' -- and Jim Wallis believes his Christian marxism can transform culture too, Brian Mclaren also believes it. Anyone who thinks we can transform culture is ignorant of Scripture. There will be no return to Eden.

[TommyDale]

I’ll take the John MacArthurs over the leftist Rick Warrens any time.

[farmer18th]

I’ll give you a choice then: you can take pre-Christian Britain, Gladiator Rome, Aztec Mexico, or 21st Century Australia. You choose. Which era do you feel safest in—and why?

[farmer18th]

I’ll take the John MacArthurs over the leftist Rick Warrens any time.

I would too, but they are both imposters. A New England Congregationalist pastor of 1775 would have cleaned their clock, intellectually, culturally, and spiritually.

[Terriergal]

The time period is irrelevant. God calls us to live the same in each time period, in season and out. (e.g. preaching the gospel when it is favorable and when it is not).

Hey, constantine turned the whole roman world Christian. Unless you’re Roman Catholic I don’t think you’d agree that was necessarily a good thing.

Regardless of what time period I would CHOOSE to live in, we are not called to transform culture but to preach the word in season and out. So apparently there will be no lasting ‘peace.’ since the Bible expects us to find that “evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.” 2 Tim 3:13

And there is coming a great tribulation (unless you’re a full preterist, in which case you still aren’t promised the transformation of culture before the return of Christ).

To suggest otherwise is to go against Scripture. Period. We may win small battles here and there, but the primary battle is not social justice, the primary battle is for the truth of the gospel to go out and transform HEARTS... the ones God is calling to himself.

[Terriergal]

Do you like Darwin Fish and Fred Phelps then?

[farmer18th]

Do you like Darwin Fish and Fred Phelps then?

Cheap shot. You're on the ropes or you wouldn't be arguing with the Crouch family in your arsenal. The Christ you are preaching isn't The King. He's a "someday god," you can use to keep Christians in their ghettos and happy they aren't required to demonstrate the fruits of conversion. The simple fact is that time is critically important. The whole idea of being "born again" occurs in time. Cultures and society are no different. You didn't answer the time and place question because it would force you to conclude that societies subject to Christ's word are more prosperous, more peaceful, more loving than those who have not heard His word.

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

[farmer18th]

I didn’t. I was talking about 1940s Lutherans when the complaint was made.

[Religion Moderator]

From your post:

You didn't answer the time and place question because it would force you to conclude that societies subject to Christ's word are more prosperous, more peaceful, more loving than those who have not heard His word.

Attributing motives - or otherwise reading the mind of another Freeper - is "making it personal."

Click on my profile page for more guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum.

[farmer18th]

Fair enough, but my correspondent’s speculation that I’m a Fred Phelps supporter doesn’t fall in the same category?