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To: ScubieNuc

***So are you saying that only the Apostles recieved the Holy Spirit? ***

Mary received the Holy Spirit at the Annunciation. The Apostles (and the others in the room) received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

***Are you saying that unbelievers recieve the Holy Spirit?***

If the gift of faith is of God, and it is by His Grace alone that we believe, then you might say that.

***Are you saying that the Holy Spirit comes from baptism and not belief?***

The gift of faith is from God.

***Are you also implying that unless one is baptised by an Apostle, then the Holy Spirit hasn’t been transfered?***

The Holy Spirit is beyond us. If He wishes to enter another and bypass the Church, it is His will. We are instructed to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. This we do; we can do no other.


670 posted on 01/31/2008 8:22:06 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
The Apostles (and the others in the room) received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

So other people who believed that weren't at Pentecost (like myself or yourself), did they too recieve the Holy Spirit?

I posted Are you saying that unbelievers recieve the Holy Spirit?

You answered If the gift of faith is of God, and it is by His Grace alone that we believe, then you might say that.

Maybe this appears as a trick question (which isn't my intention), but if a person doesn't believe in Jesus as their savior (unbeliever) how can they recieve the Holy Spirit? I would say that only believers can recieve the Holy Spirit (based on the Bible).

I posted Are you saying that the Holy Spirit comes from baptism and not belief?

You answered The gift of faith is from God.

I don't understand your answer to my question. I'll try it a different way...

How does one recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Is it through belief and baptism?
Is it through baptism then later through belief?
Is it through belief which is demonstrated through baptism?
Is baptism even required?

What is your basis for your answer?

We are instructed to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Who do you baptise? Those who profess belief or those who can't profess anything yet?

This we do; we can do no other.

That sounds all poetic and such, but the reality is that you can do whatever you choose to do. For instance, there is NO place in the Bible that shows infants being baptised, but you choose to do that. Baptism is demonstrated in the Bible as a burial and resurrection (immersion), but some choose to do it as a sprinkling.

The point is that we humans can choose to do what we want. Whether it is correct or not will ultimately be decided by God. As for me, I will choose to do the things that are in the New Testament, because that is the Gospel of Truth.
672 posted on 01/31/2008 8:58:13 AM PST by ScubieNuc (There is only ONE mediator between man and God....Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5)
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To: MarkBsnr; ScubieNuc; Quix; Lord_Calvinus; wmfights; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; the_conscience; ...
The Holy Spirit is beyond us.

Oh, Mark, my heart grieves for you.

The Holy Spirit is alive and well and indwelling every one of Christ's sheep, by the grace and purpose and mercy of God alone.

"And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" -- Luke 11:9-13

It's the gift of Holy Spirit within us that even makes you want to knock at the door of Christ. If you don't believe Christ's promise to you, would you believe Augustine?

"The grace of God does not find men fit to be elected, but makes them so..."

"The nature of the Divine goodness is not only to open to those that knock, but also to cause them to knock and ask."

This is the expressed purpose of the Holy Spirit -- to open our eyes and ears and give us a new heart and lead us in sanctification toward obedience and gratitude to Jesus Christ alone.

If you miss that, you've missed so much.

This was one of the primary goals of the Reformation -- to restore the Holy Spirit in the church and in men's minds to His rightful place as the means and method of men receiving God's grace through faith in Christ. The reformers went back to the Bible and read for themselves that the gift of the Holy Spirit is given to individuals who then make up the church of God on earth. Rome has worked to usurp the role of Holy Spirit for centuries.

As if it possibly could.

Thankfully, we have God's word that the Holy Spirit is not "beyond us," but within us by the grace and purpose and will of God alone.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" -- 1 Corinthians 6:19

Paul is asking YOU that question, Mark.

685 posted on 01/31/2008 9:56:09 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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