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To: aruanan; kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
FK: "God gave Adam a law and he broke it. Because of that sin was inherited by all men following."

Actually, that passage says that sin entered the world through one man (Adam) and death through sin and that death came to all men because all men had sinned.

My NIV says this for example:

Rom 5:15-19 : 15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

I just don't see any reasonable reading of this other than Adam's sin had real repercussions for the rest of humanity. The distinction of Adam's sin was WAY MORE than that it was simply the first. Do you believe in the concept of original sin as being bigger than that it was simply first?

The whole "it's a genetic condition passed down through the male" is a more or less parascriptural gloss. It was taken to an extreme about 30 years ago by the Institute for Creation Research. Henry Morris reasoned 1. since the sin nature was passed along through the father necessitating a virgin birth, 2, since the Lamb of God had to be completely perfect in every way, and 3. since Mary herself, as part of the human race, took part in the corrupted physical nature of fallen flesh and couldn't be the physical antecedent of the perfect physical nature of Jesus any more than Joseph could, the physical, human body of Jesus, therefore, had to be an ex nihilo creation of a human embryo within Mary.

But #1 cancels out #3. If the sin nature is passed down through the male, as I believe, then Mary's sin nature would be irrelevant to Christ, just as my wife's sin nature is irrelevant to our children. So I say that Jesus had Mary's DNA flowing all through Him. He was fully human and did not have the sin nature.

6,014 posted on 06/01/2008 7:26:13 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; aruanan; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
My NIV says this for example...Rom 5:18 "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men"

Well, it says here clearly that "one act of righteousness was justification that brings life to all men." That is exactly the Apostolic view. God made it possible for all men to come to Him, as He desires all men to be saved. The only reason this doesn't happen with all men is because God gave man freedom to choose.

6,017 posted on 06/01/2008 8:58:26 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper
So I say that Jesus had Mary's DNA flowing all through Him. He was fully human and did not have the sin nature.

But women don't have the Y chromosome (except in special cases) and the X chromosome that a girl got from her father somewhere back along the line was randomly obtained from one of his predecessor's mothers. The point that Morris was making was that Mary's flesh was sinful human flesh and, being sinful, could not have been perfect and since it was not perfect, could not have been the source of his human body since as the perfect lamb of God he had to be without defect in order to be a perfect sacrifice for humanity.
6,024 posted on 06/01/2008 10:33:34 PM PDT by aruanan
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