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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
The Reformed Creator created Adam and he sinned.

Well, according to Calvin, Adam sinned by the express will of God.

“God not only foresaw that Adam would fall, but also ordained that he should.”
(Calvin’s Inst., b. 3, c. 23, sec. 7.)

“...[Adam] fell not only by the permission, but also by the appointment, of God.”
(Calvin Responsio ad Calumnias Nebulonis cujusdam ad Articulum primum.)

“He sinned because God so ordained, because the Lord saw good.”
(Calvin’s Inst., b. 3, c. 24, sec. 8.)

That Calvin took issue with those who disagree with the above: “They deny that the Scripture says God decreed Adam’s fall. They say he might have chose either to fall or not; and that God fore-ordained only to treat him according to his desert: As if God had created the noblest of all his creatures, without fore-ordaining what should become of him!”
(Ibid., sec. 7.)

“I confess it is a horrible decree; yet no one can deny but God foreknew Adam’s fall, and therefore foreknew it, because he had ordained it so by his own decree.”
(Calv. Inst., b. 3, c. 23, sec. 7.)

“God of his own good pleasure ordains that many should be born, who are from the womb devoted to inevitable damnation. If any man pretend that God’s foreknowledge lays them under no necessity of being damned, but rather that he decreed their damnation because he foreknew their wickedness, I grant that God’s foreknowledge alone lays no necessity on the creature; but eternal life and death depend on the will rather than the foreknowledge of God. If God only foreknew all things that relate to all men, and did not decree and ordain them also, then it might be inquired whether or no his foreknowledge necessitates the thing foreknown. But seeing he therefore foreknows all things that will come to pass, because he has decreed they shall come to pass, it is vain to contend about foreknowledge, since it so plain all things come to pass by God’s positive decree.”
(Ibid., c. 23, s. 6.)

“The devil and wicked men are so held in on every side with the hand of God, that they cannot conceive, or contrive, or execute any mischief, any farther than God himself doth not permit only, but command. Nor are they only held in fetters, but compelled also, as with a bridle, to perform obedience to those commands.”
(Calv. Inst., b. 1, c. 17, s. 11.)
5,975 posted on 05/30/2008 5:19:42 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan; Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg

It all comes down to this question...

Who put the tree in the garden, and why? Answer that question, and you will see the answer as plain as day.


5,977 posted on 05/30/2008 5:43:22 PM PDT by irishtenor (Check out my blog at http://boompa53.blogspot.com/)
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To: aruanan; MarkBsnr; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
FK: "The Reformed Creator created Adam and he sinned."

Well, according to Calvin, Adam sinned by the express will of God.

Yes, God ordained it. That is, He left Adam and Eve alone knowing what was going to happen. But it was Adam and Eve who did the sinning. When the serpent was deceiving Eve, God just watched (in HD :). He didn't interfere to set her straight (which He absolutely DID do in many other OT examples, such as Abraham with Issac). The same happened when Eve came to Adam. I mean, it wasn't like God was taking a nap or something. :)

Thanks for the quotes from Calvin. He's got it exactly right. :)

5,987 posted on 05/30/2008 10:45:59 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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