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To: aruanan; MarkBsnr; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor
FK: "The Reformed Creator created Adam and he sinned."

Well, according to Calvin, Adam sinned by the express will of God.

Yes, God ordained it. That is, He left Adam and Eve alone knowing what was going to happen. But it was Adam and Eve who did the sinning. When the serpent was deceiving Eve, God just watched (in HD :). He didn't interfere to set her straight (which He absolutely DID do in many other OT examples, such as Abraham with Issac). The same happened when Eve came to Adam. I mean, it wasn't like God was taking a nap or something. :)

Thanks for the quotes from Calvin. He's got it exactly right. :)

5,987 posted on 05/30/2008 10:45:59 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
But it was Adam and Eve who did the sinning. When the serpent was deceiving Eve, God just watched (in HD :)

But according to Calvin, God didn't just arrange the situation and do nothing to interfere with the sin of Adam and Eve, merely foreseeing, that is, taking a permissive role and seeing ahead of time what man, in his own moral authority, freely chose to do, but actively willed that it take place and, because he had willed that they should sin, they did sin.
“God not only foresaw that Adam would fall, but also ordained that he should.”
(Calvin’s Inst., b. 3, c. 23, sec. 7.)

“...[Adam] fell not only by the permission, but also by the appointment, of God.”
(Calvin Responsio ad Calumnias Nebulonis cujusdam ad Articulum primum.)

“He sinned because God so ordained, because the Lord saw good.”
(Calvin’s Inst., b. 3, c. 24, sec. 8.)
Man's action in sinning, therefore, was not conditional but determined. That is, there was nothing in man having to do with unconditioned volition that was the cause of sin for which he bore the moral responsibility. Man's sin, therefore, was the expression or outworking of the will of God. He could no more not sin than water could choose to be not wet. Man's sin was as caused as his nature as man was caused and, according to Calvin, the cause of both, the responsible agent of both, was God. The reason? "...because the Lord saw good."

With that viewpoint, one wonders what one must make of the Bible reporting that God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness."
5,988 posted on 05/31/2008 3:59:06 AM PDT by aruanan
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