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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; MarkBsnr
“”Would Archbishop Sheen call an amoeba in a petri dish “free”? It really depends on how you look at it doesn't it?””

You're forgetting that God gave man power to rule over moving things and animals. It is the freedom of Man who took the freedom away from the amoeba by putting it in a petri dish and enslaving it outside of its enviornment.

From the Scriptures

“And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.”
Genesis 1:26

Thou hast made him a little less than the angels, thou hast crowned him with glory and honour: And hast set him over the works of thy hands. Thou hast subjected all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen: moreover the beasts also of the fields. The birds of the air, and the fishes of the sea, that pass through the paths of the sea. O Lord our Lord, how admirable is thy name in all the earth! Pslams 8:6-10

FK-””Man has varying levels of freedom within the parameters that God sets.””

Perhaps you can explain what these levels are?

Man certainly has freedom to enslave himself by cursing God,committing adultery ,aborting babies etc....

Can you name some things that man is NOT free to do within the bounds of physical laws of nature?

“Freedom that ignores the transcendent difference between good and evil ends in the denial of freedom itself.”
-Fulton J. Sheen

5,971 posted on 05/30/2008 12:58:03 PM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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To: stfassisi; kosta50; MarkBsnr; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: “”Would Archbishop Sheen call an amoeba in a petri dish “free”? It really depends on how you look at it doesn't it?””

You're forgetting that God gave man power to rule over moving things and animals. It is the freedom of Man who took the freedom away from the amoeba by putting it in a petri dish and enslaving it outside of its environment.

You're making my point. Man has the power to determine the amoeba's freedom and God has the power to determine ours. Which is the greater gulf, amoeba to man or man to God? That is, who has the greater authority? If you agree with me that the answer is God, then that would be evidence against those who argue that man's freedom is absolute to the extent of determining one's own destiny. Man, with far far less power completely determines the destiny of the amoeba in a petri dish.

FK-””Man has varying levels of freedom within the parameters that God sets.””

Perhaps you can explain what these levels are?

Sure. The basics are that man as born is dead in sin. He is free to sin but he is not free to do good in God's eyes. However, once a man believes and is sealed by the Holy Spirit, then he has a new freedom that includes doing good in God's eyes. At this point he retains the freedom to sin. Finally, when man is glorified and admitted into Heaven, he loses the freedom to sin. Of course, throughout all of this, no freedom of man ever trumps God's will at a particular time. God's Holy plan is higher than man's freedom, whether to do good or evil.

Man certainly has freedom to enslave himself by cursing God,committing adultery ,aborting babies etc....

Yes, but not over and above God's will.

Can you name some things that man is NOT free to do within the bounds of physical laws of nature?

Yes. A lost person is not free to do anything that would please God. And, a saved person is not free to do anything that would cause him to lose his salvation (a theoretical possibility but for God's promises). Finally, no one is ever free to do anything in contradiction to God's plan. There are zillions of examples in each category.

“Freedom that ignores the transcendent difference between good and evil ends in the denial of freedom itself.” -Fulton J. Sheen

Sounds cool, but it sure ain't Biblical. :) God defines what is good and what is evil, and God determines what freedoms man has and when.

5,986 posted on 05/30/2008 9:57:34 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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