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To: kosta50; aruanan; Just mythoughts; Kolokotronis; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr
In other words, you had faith but didn't know what you believed in until you opened the Bible? How can you call that faith?

I wouldn't say it worked like that. My faith grew gradually. It started with a Bible study group where I heard the Gospel verbally. From there I started reading scriptures, which confirmed what I had been told. Eventually, at some point, I "had" faith and asked Jesus into my life. None of this would have ever happened had God not first given me a new heart that was able to receive the Truth.

The way you describe this, the Bible gave you faith!

Then I did a poor job. :) Only God gives faith. The Bible explains, confirms and expands on what that faith is.

Let me get this straight: what exactly did you believe when you started reading the Bible?

I had a basic verbal presentation of the Gospel message of salvation. I wanted to learn more so I started reading. That message was confirmed, and I learned other things too. With my new heart I was open to receiving what scripture said until I finally knew that I NEEDED Christ for sure.

What if you started reading the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible? Would you have ended up joining a Mormon assembly? If not, why not?

For one thing it wouldn't have matched what I was told at a Christian Bible study. My parents were Christian in name only, but nevertheless it was what it was and everyone I knew who had any faith was either Christian or Jewish. So, it probably wouldn't have occurred to me to study the Mormon faith.

Secondly, the new heart that God gave me would not have responded to the Mormon faith, if that was the time God had chosen for me to come to faith. It is 20/20 hindsight now, but that's how it turned out by God's sovereign design. (I knew none of this at the time of course.) However, if God's plan was for me to accept Christ at, say, 30, then as a teenager I would have surely been susceptible to joining other faiths. It could have happened, and certainly HAS happened with other people who wind up as Christians.

The only way you could tell if something was genuine or not is for you to know what is scripture and what is not. Where would that knowledge come from, and how did reading the Bible add to such a powerful knowledge?

At that Bible study I met mature Christians (young adults) for the first time in my life. I could tell immediately that they were different from me. I saw what they accepted as scripture and had no trouble accepting that the Bible was THE Book. Issues such as the Apocrypha were immaterial at that point. I had a never-opened Bible from my infant baptism and it seemed to fit in fine with what other people were using so I thought I was good to go. I didn't give particular Bible versions a second thought until I started studying seriously with one of the ministers at my church, a few years after I was married.

5,607 posted on 05/16/2008 6:34:17 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
Then I did a poor job. :) Only God gives faith. The Bible explains, confirms and expands on what that faith is.

Well, to be a stickler: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). Oft times people refer to Ephesians 2:8 (For by grace (masculine) are ye saved through faith (feminine); and that (neuter) not of yourselves: it is the gift (neuter) of God:) as describing faith as being a gift from God. This is where Greek comes in handy. The antecedent of "that" (singular neuter) is not faith, otherwise it would be in the same gender as "faith" (feminine); it is not grace, otherwise it would be in the same gender as "grace" (masculine); instead it is referring to "the incomparable riches" (το υπερβαλλον πλουτος, singular neuter) of his grace in the preceding verse. Notice also that "for by grace have you been saved" is a refrain that is interpolated in both the 5th and the 8th verses, with the amplification "by faith" in the eighth. It is the unfortunate division into verses that serves to emphasize by isolation this incorrect reading. No one has the excuse, "Well, God never gifted me with faith, so I can't be blamed for not believing in him." A more accurate translation of these verses would be (using the KJV text, using 'wealth' instead of 'riches' because 'wealth' is singular like το υπερβαλλον πλουτος is singular, and repeating the antecedent with the demonstrative pronoun that refers back to it):
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved) and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding wealth of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus (for by grace are ye saved through faith) and that exceeding wealth is not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast.

5,609 posted on 05/16/2008 7:19:04 PM PDT by aruanan
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