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To: Forest Keeper
Then I did a poor job. :) Only God gives faith. The Bible explains, confirms and expands on what that faith is.

Well, to be a stickler: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). Oft times people refer to Ephesians 2:8 (For by grace (masculine) are ye saved through faith (feminine); and that (neuter) not of yourselves: it is the gift (neuter) of God:) as describing faith as being a gift from God. This is where Greek comes in handy. The antecedent of "that" (singular neuter) is not faith, otherwise it would be in the same gender as "faith" (feminine); it is not grace, otherwise it would be in the same gender as "grace" (masculine); instead it is referring to "the incomparable riches" (το υπερβαλλον πλουτος, singular neuter) of his grace in the preceding verse. Notice also that "for by grace have you been saved" is a refrain that is interpolated in both the 5th and the 8th verses, with the amplification "by faith" in the eighth. It is the unfortunate division into verses that serves to emphasize by isolation this incorrect reading. No one has the excuse, "Well, God never gifted me with faith, so I can't be blamed for not believing in him." A more accurate translation of these verses would be (using the KJV text, using 'wealth' instead of 'riches' because 'wealth' is singular like το υπερβαλλον πλουτος is singular, and repeating the antecedent with the demonstrative pronoun that refers back to it):
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved) and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding wealth of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus (for by grace are ye saved through faith) and that exceeding wealth is not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast.

5,609 posted on 05/16/2008 7:19:04 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan; Forest Keeper
Well, to be a stickler: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17)

So, you get your faith from the Bible? No wonder Protestants just about worship it.

5,611 posted on 05/16/2008 7:44:16 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: aruanan
Well, to be a stickler: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17).

That's true, and I would add that the word comes from God and the hearing is because of God changing the heart (Ezek. 36:26 et seq.). Therefore, faith comes from God.

[On Eph. 2:8-9] The antecedent of "that" (singular neuter) is not faith, otherwise it would be in the same gender as "faith" (feminine); it is not grace, otherwise it would be in the same gender as "grace" (masculine); instead it is referring to "the incomparable riches" (το υπερβαλλον πλουτος, singular neuter) of his grace in the preceding verse.

Then if faith is not the gift of God, do you say that man generates his own faith?

No one has the excuse, "Well, God never gifted me with faith, so I can't be blamed for not believing in him."

The Bible says that no man has an excuse, but it doesn't say that man rules his own destiny. I believe the weight of scriptures tell of a completely sovereign God.

5,658 posted on 05/19/2008 3:16:04 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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