Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
seed=speed
The point you are making is that people should not jumpt to conclusions of interpretation without studying a word. I would ask you if that is not why you like to study Greek.
My point is that often, the correct definition of the English word is available, the word is correct, and it can be proven without going to a Greek text. And helping people understand that will also help them in their knowlege of their own language, which is not what the public schools do anymore.
I have been in the mountains of the Carolinas and W Virginia where people call each other “cousin,” thinking that they are probably related in some manner somewhere along the line (but wish they weren’t). They know full well that “cousin” doesn’t always mean son-of-my-mother’s-sister, etc.
Now I’m wondering why the moderator of this thread get’s on my case but doesn’t get on yours.
I am sure you do your reasearch and understand the words properly because you go the extra mile.
An average Joes doesn't. If the Bible is "perspicuous" then it should be understood equally by those who love dicitonaries and those who don't.
The English-speaking world is not made up of Carolinas and W. Virginia. The English-speaking world is vast and culturally heterogenius. The words used in common usage should be those that are unambiguously understood by all English-speaking people, not just some isolated areas.
Now I’m wondering why the moderator of this thread get’s on my case but doesn’t get on yours
You have to play by the rules.
And all are living creatures. That means we and amoebas are really one and the same.
I read your lengthy rationalizations. Anyone who reads that chapter will see that bats are included with birds. Obviously they were not insects, which are distinctly different from birds.
The author simply didn't know that bats are not birds. And that's fine with me, but it's not good enough for the Bible. The point is that if everything in the Bible is "God-breathed" then it should be true even if man's perceptions at the time the book was written were flawed.
What that means is that God would never allow the author of the book to say that the earth sits on four pillars because it is false. God would never allow the author to say that the mustard seed is the smallest seed, because it isn't. Never mind the fact that the smaller one is in Hawaii. God would know that but not the author.
The fact that such statements exist, it is evident that not everything in the Bible is the word of God, unless one is willing to say that God intentionally placed false statements in the Bible!
God stands for absolute truth and absolute truth doesn't change. If the Bible is simply the taxonomy of men, as he knew the world at that time, then it is not God's word but man's word.
There is nothing wrong with explaining things, then, to people who are not students of language per se. Their not seeing it first off (and needing it explained) doesn’t mean that the word used is no good, archaic, porly chosen, or should be changed. What’s needed is for them just to know the language better.
I don’t know that I go the extra mile, but I am a student of Chinese and use it daily, and so I’m always looking at dictionaries. It makes one keen to word usages.
Which reminds me that many words and expressions used by the KJB translators, which are often criticized as archaic and not heard much in North America anymore, are still used daily in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, and believe it or not, Shanghai, where I live.
When’s the last time anyone in the USA heard a recorded voice on a transit train say, “Please alight (or light off) on the left.” That is, “Please exit or get off on the left.” But this can be heard daily in the Orient where English is spoken. See Geneis 24:64 KJB. And that’s only one of many example I can give.
When I was younger, I used to listen to many preachers say, “Oh that word hasn’t been used for 300 years . . .we need another Bible.” Then I got to the Orient and discovered that those words are only out of use in the USA. But I have come to believe that it is America that has been dumbed down over the past century, and “archaic” words are not the problem at all.
And when I hear preachers give definitions of English words with a Greek word, I seem to easily find the same conclusion in good English dictionaries. So I say, hhhmmmm, rather than allow the Greek scholars to kind of become a self-appointed authority over our interpretation of the Scriptures, I think I will encourage people who already have a love for Bible study to do more study of the English language.
taxonomy of men=taxonomy of man
“The English-speaking world is not made up of Carolinas and W. Virginia.”
But they are the commoners, bless the Lord.
Your interest in languages is one thing, as long as you realize that most people in the world don't share your passion, no matter how much I agree with you that knowing a language is important. I speak three languages fluently, and have a working knowledge of six, so I can appreciate that.
As for the Greek being the authority, it is by virtue of the fact that it is the language in which the New Testament was written. Its correct interpretation goes beyond words because its syntax and tense are not always equivalent to anything in English (aorist for example).
Instructing people on the correct interpretation is fine with me as long as you realize that this leads to official truth which we Orthodox and Catholic accept, but the Protestants don't. Once you start preaching, you become the "church." And that is contrary to anything Protestant, let alone the idea that the Bible is "perspicuous."
Goodness alive! There are untold numbers of native English speakers in Shanghai! That is why public announcements are in Chinese and English here. There are native English- speaking Americans, Brits, Auzies, Kiwis, South Africans, Other Africans, Indians, Singaporians. And besides native speakers, there are also Taiwanese, Japanese, Koreans, and Russians who speak English as fluently as native Michiganders.
Your viewing America. I’m looking at English on a world-wide scale. The best English Bible, thinking world-wide, is still the KJB. Let’s encourage Americans to catch up on their English to Singaporeans.
Absolutely,and beautifully stated!I have not heard it said that way before, but have felt that way
Thank You,Dear Kosta
I wish you a Blessed day!
It's that kind of thinking that keeps men from recognizing their own sins and their position in God's creation.
Sin is part and parcel of this world. It entered the world with Adam and a fallen creation IS now the creation.
And if God didn't WANT this creation to exist, this creation wouldn't exist. Something else would exist.
If the creation were not fallen, there would be no need for Jesus Christ. Therefore, it follows that because Christ is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world," sin was included in God's plan for His creation.
To believe otherwise negates Christ Himself.
"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." -- Romans 8:22
Sin does not just "distort" us; we are sin ("for everything not of faith is sin"), unless and until we are made new creatures in Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" -- Romans 8:8-16 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So again it looks like an under-estimation of men's sin nature once more elevates men at the expense of God. Men are not "distorted" by sin; men are sin, unless Christ's righteousness covers them.
"...we can all say with David, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful at the time my mother conceived me" (Ps. 51:5). But some might respond by asking, how can we be "condemned" by God for the sins of another person? How can the disobedience of Adam be attributed to me? Surely this is unfair and unjust! But it must quickly be pointed out that if this is the case, that is, if it is true that it is unjust for us to be considered guilty for the acts of another, then we will have destroyed the heart and center of the Christian faith. You see, Christ was a man who was credited with our injustice. He took our sin upon himself, and was judged in our place. Therefore, if it is unjust for us to be considered guilty for Adam's sin, then it would be equally unjust for God to consider Christ guilty for our sins, an assertion that essentially destroys the Christian doctrine of salvation..."
“But where does that leave the Giver of Life?”
In His mediatorial function (His “session”) until the “fullness of time”, seated at the “right hand” (seat of power) of God as our High Priest, “Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.”
Dr E-””It's that kind of thinking that keeps men from recognizing their own sins and their position in God's creation.””
It's completely opposite of what you're saying,Dear Sister.
It's going beyond recognition and penance for our own sins and doing sacrifice and reparation for the sins of others.
Would you actually have a problem with Prayer and fasting for a girl who is contemplating abortion, or even a girl who already had an abortion?
The distortion causes us to recognize the sin and be willing to sacrifice for the sin of others who distort creation.
The need for reparation today is immense in a world of millions of abortions, sex filled television adds that bombards are children along with every other immoral activity that this world approves of.
“”Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church””
-Colossians 1:24
Christ Himself did not lack anything,so, Saint Paul is referring for us to be Christlike in suffering and sacrificing for others.
This is following the Law of Love that is written on our Hearts.
This is unconditional love in going beyond our SELF for the love of others,Dear sister!
I wish you a Blessed Evening
Well, I can't deny that! :)
I'm not holding my breath, though. :)
Look, if basic English is incomprehensible to all English-speaking people, then English should be reclassified as different but related languages. One thing is certain: no one speaks the 17th century version of British English found in KJV.
Miracles do happen! :) With God, everything is possible.
May God bless you, Brother.
Dr. E: It's that kind of thinking that keeps men from recognizing their own sins and their position in God's creation
Huh? How do you come to that conclusion. We sin; we corrupt the creation around us. I would say it is the Reformed who have the deformed idea that somehow they can go on sinning and still be forgiven.
And if God didn't WANT this creation to exist, this creation wouldn't exist. Something else would exist
God wanted a sinful world? I don't know such a God. My God is Jesus Christ. What's yours? Zeus?
If the creation were not fallen, there would be no need for Jesus Christ
Oh, I get it! God wasn't just happy with the world which He made good, all of it good; He had to "spice" it up with corruption, evil and death, and essentially "suicide" for His own glory?
"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." -- Romans 8:22
Why did I know you'd quote Paul? :) But I won't' argue with you this time because Apostle Paul does say that the world fell (according to Paul's interpretation) because God willed it, in hope [sic] that it will be redeemed.
Was God "hoping" it would work? I have outlined my position on Paul in the past: I don't buy his theology, but he was necessary for the Church to survive. Quoting Paul to me is a waste of time.
Sin does not just "distort" us; we are sin ("for everything not of faith is sin"), unless and until we are made new creatures in Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Speak for yourself! There are a lot of good people on this earth, and not all of them are "born-again." The love of God is inscribed in their hearts.
Men are not "distorted" by sin; men are sin, unless Christ's righteousness covers them.
That's consistent with the Reformed theology: God created sin. Well, He created man who then turned into sin by the will of God. Same thing.
God did this so He could commit deicide and glorify Himself? I don't think so.
Man's intended purpose was to be under grace, Christ-like. Fallen men is not a "natural" man; he is spiritually sick in need of a spiritual physician.
"...we can all say with David, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful at the time my mother conceived me" (Ps. 51:5)
I have no idea why David thought he was sinful at birth. Even the Bible reminds us that the inequities of father are not iniquities of their children. Otherwise we could be trying and executing the great-grandchildren of Nazi war criminals. It's that "blood feud" that existed in some primitive societies well intot eh 20th century (Albania for example).
Therefore, if it is unjust for us to be considered guilty for Adam's sin, then it would be equally unjust for God to consider Christ guilty for our sins, an assertion that essentially destroys the Christian doctrine of salvation..."
Christ was never guilty of any sins. Only something as deformed as Reformed theology could teach that He was! Talk about satanic teaching! Christ offered Himself as ransom (check your Bible), to death as our substitute, in exchange of our freedom. That is the Christian doctrine of redemption, not salvation. Once redeemed, those who become Christ-like, even if it is only in their hearts, are saved because they are restored to their original created purpose.
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