It's that kind of thinking that keeps men from recognizing their own sins and their position in God's creation.
Sin is part and parcel of this world. It entered the world with Adam and a fallen creation IS now the creation.
And if God didn't WANT this creation to exist, this creation wouldn't exist. Something else would exist.
If the creation were not fallen, there would be no need for Jesus Christ. Therefore, it follows that because Christ is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world," sin was included in God's plan for His creation.
To believe otherwise negates Christ Himself.
"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." -- Romans 8:22
Sin does not just "distort" us; we are sin ("for everything not of faith is sin"), unless and until we are made new creatures in Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" -- Romans 8:8-16 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So again it looks like an under-estimation of men's sin nature once more elevates men at the expense of God. Men are not "distorted" by sin; men are sin, unless Christ's righteousness covers them.
"...we can all say with David, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful at the time my mother conceived me" (Ps. 51:5). But some might respond by asking, how can we be "condemned" by God for the sins of another person? How can the disobedience of Adam be attributed to me? Surely this is unfair and unjust! But it must quickly be pointed out that if this is the case, that is, if it is true that it is unjust for us to be considered guilty for the acts of another, then we will have destroyed the heart and center of the Christian faith. You see, Christ was a man who was credited with our injustice. He took our sin upon himself, and was judged in our place. Therefore, if it is unjust for us to be considered guilty for Adam's sin, then it would be equally unjust for God to consider Christ guilty for our sins, an assertion that essentially destroys the Christian doctrine of salvation..."
Dr E-””It's that kind of thinking that keeps men from recognizing their own sins and their position in God's creation.””
It's completely opposite of what you're saying,Dear Sister.
It's going beyond recognition and penance for our own sins and doing sacrifice and reparation for the sins of others.
Would you actually have a problem with Prayer and fasting for a girl who is contemplating abortion, or even a girl who already had an abortion?
The distortion causes us to recognize the sin and be willing to sacrifice for the sin of others who distort creation.
The need for reparation today is immense in a world of millions of abortions, sex filled television adds that bombards are children along with every other immoral activity that this world approves of.
“”Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church””
-Colossians 1:24
Christ Himself did not lack anything,so, Saint Paul is referring for us to be Christlike in suffering and sacrificing for others.
This is following the Law of Love that is written on our Hearts.
This is unconditional love in going beyond our SELF for the love of others,Dear sister!
I wish you a Blessed Evening
Dr. E: It's that kind of thinking that keeps men from recognizing their own sins and their position in God's creation
Huh? How do you come to that conclusion. We sin; we corrupt the creation around us. I would say it is the Reformed who have the deformed idea that somehow they can go on sinning and still be forgiven.
And if God didn't WANT this creation to exist, this creation wouldn't exist. Something else would exist
God wanted a sinful world? I don't know such a God. My God is Jesus Christ. What's yours? Zeus?
If the creation were not fallen, there would be no need for Jesus Christ
Oh, I get it! God wasn't just happy with the world which He made good, all of it good; He had to "spice" it up with corruption, evil and death, and essentially "suicide" for His own glory?
"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." -- Romans 8:22
Why did I know you'd quote Paul? :) But I won't' argue with you this time because Apostle Paul does say that the world fell (according to Paul's interpretation) because God willed it, in hope [sic] that it will be redeemed.
Was God "hoping" it would work? I have outlined my position on Paul in the past: I don't buy his theology, but he was necessary for the Church to survive. Quoting Paul to me is a waste of time.
Sin does not just "distort" us; we are sin ("for everything not of faith is sin"), unless and until we are made new creatures in Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Speak for yourself! There are a lot of good people on this earth, and not all of them are "born-again." The love of God is inscribed in their hearts.
Men are not "distorted" by sin; men are sin, unless Christ's righteousness covers them.
That's consistent with the Reformed theology: God created sin. Well, He created man who then turned into sin by the will of God. Same thing.
God did this so He could commit deicide and glorify Himself? I don't think so.
Man's intended purpose was to be under grace, Christ-like. Fallen men is not a "natural" man; he is spiritually sick in need of a spiritual physician.
"...we can all say with David, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful at the time my mother conceived me" (Ps. 51:5)
I have no idea why David thought he was sinful at birth. Even the Bible reminds us that the inequities of father are not iniquities of their children. Otherwise we could be trying and executing the great-grandchildren of Nazi war criminals. It's that "blood feud" that existed in some primitive societies well intot eh 20th century (Albania for example).
Therefore, if it is unjust for us to be considered guilty for Adam's sin, then it would be equally unjust for God to consider Christ guilty for our sins, an assertion that essentially destroys the Christian doctrine of salvation..."
Christ was never guilty of any sins. Only something as deformed as Reformed theology could teach that He was! Talk about satanic teaching! Christ offered Himself as ransom (check your Bible), to death as our substitute, in exchange of our freedom. That is the Christian doctrine of redemption, not salvation. Once redeemed, those who become Christ-like, even if it is only in their hearts, are saved because they are restored to their original created purpose.