Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
“Can you give an example of where the Evil One accurately quoted scripture?”
Sure. He quotes Psalms 91: 11, 12 in Matt. 4: 5, 6, and accurately enough too, though his interpretation is a bit “unorthodox”.
lol, was the interpretation literal or figurative?
Then the devil took Him into the holy city; and he had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If you are the Son of God throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will give His angels charge concerning you,’ and, ‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.” - Matthew 4:5-6 ***
The NAB link I found says this:
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and made him stand on the parapet of the temple, 6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written: 'He will command his angels concerning you and 'with their hands they will support you, lest you dash your foot against a stone.'"
The reference is to Ps. 91:11-12. Here is the NAB:
11 For God commands the angels to guard you in all your ways. 12 With their hands they shall support you, lest you strike your foot against a stone. (emphasis added)
See the difference? satan left out "guard you in all your ways". This is a relevant omission. "Christ's ways" would be determined by God alone. They would not be the ways that satan was then suggesting. By leaving this part out, satan tried to make it look like God would protect Jesus no matter what He did. But that isn't what the source passage says. Theoretically, had Jesus fallen for the temptation and jumped, then no one would have protected Him because jumping was not "Christ's ways", that would have been "satan's ways". Therefore, I would say that satan materially misquoted the scriptures here. But of course, our Lord Jesus would have none of it.
***I just mean that Christ did not come here to be a free-lancer. ***
Are you saying that we entertain the possibility that Jesus is apart from God?
***By never sinning He did everything God wanted Him to do. ***
Are you saying that you entertain the possibility that Jesus is apart from God?
***We know for sure that Jesus said He came here to obey the will of the Father, and we know that Jesus asked for the cup to be taken from Him. So, it sounds to me that the humanity in Jesus DID submit.***
Are you saying that Jesus is a separate entity from God?
***It is natural for us to say that the issue of salvation is “more important” than the issue of some of the statistics given in Numbers. So, I don’t argue with someone who says that the Gospels are “more important” for that issue. I’m just saying that God still wanted us to know those passages in Numbers, and they are still true. There are things to be learned that are important in other areas.***
No question. Scripture is Scripture. I simply maintain that the Sermon on the Mount is more important for salvation and our understanding of it. I do not put down anything in the Bible. The Church Fathers deemed it ultimately important and I dare not gainsay them.
Amen to that! :) Ann does not pull any punches against RINOs. She'll go after anyone who claims to be a conservative but whose record doesn't back it up. I think she's very consistent.
***The only ones who will “recognize Christ in them” are those whom have been likewise given eyes to see and ears to hear by God alone.***
The secret indwelling handshake for the elite club of former high school student council officers, no doubt.
***If you don’t recognize the good fruits of the Holy Spirit, that’s quite a loss.***
Taunted any non elites today with the impossibility of salvation for them?
Okay. That's it. I am officially no longer in love with her.
LOL! :)
An omission of Scripture is what we are faced with all the time from some of our Protestant brethren. The cherry picking is endemic.
Unrelated Scripture is placed in juxtaposition and new theologies are constructed on a daily basis. I will grant that satan did leave out Scripture, but he quoted it as accurately as some Protestant fathers have.
"Our understanding?"
Weren't you one of the RCs awhile back who peculiarly asserted that the Sermon on the Mount was only spoken to the apostles and not to the "throngs" who had assembled with them to hear Jesus speak?
And undoubtedly as accurate as some RCC ‘fathers’ have.
As is so often the case, that response doesn’t address any issues or Scripture, but just slings some incoherent, sophomoric insults of a personal nature.
Great catch, FK. Your excellent and accurate observation comes from reading the Bible and knowing whom you have believed.
And I “still” love your tag, Mary. 8~)
***Weren’t you one of the RCs awhile back who peculiarly asserted that the Sermon on the Mount was only spoken to the apostles and not to the “throngs” who had assembled with them to hear Jesus speak?***
I am with the Church Fathers and with the Church. I have no need of faddish interpretations. We are informed that Jesus spoke to the Apostles; we are then given the words that He spoke. We are informed.
It is possible in the world of the Reformed that one cannot overhear the words of one to another without believing that the words are also directed to them; indeed, the Reformed theology appears to be a very diverse and muddled puddle of misunderstandings.
It is clear from the passage that Jesus, up in the mountain with the Apostles and well away from the crowds was speaking to them. There were no microphones and external speakers in those days. No sound boosters. I’d suggest that you consider the level of technology as opposed to our current level. I’d also suggest that the KJV was not widely circulated at the time of Christ.
***And undoubtedly as accurate as some RCC ‘fathers’ have.***
I’m not sure who you believe that the RCC ‘fathers’ are. Could you list them?
Would they happen to include such folks as St Augustine, St Athenasius, St. Peter, St. Paul, and St. Irenaeus?
Sadly the RCC teaches a faith through other mediators and other Christs and other doctrines of men.
Yet God will not be mocked. The Scriptures are clear. Thank God I and all Bible-believing Christians know whom we have believed, and why.
Although I have to say I think your interpretation of who makes up the audience for the Sermon on the Mount is a private interpretation of your own. Most of the RCs I know believe Christ was speaking to the throngs of people who came to hear Him, among which were the apostles. And in preaching the Gospel, Christ speaks to all those who are His, all those with ears to hear.
Solus Christus.
As the opening of this thread reminded us...
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." -- Romans 1:16-17"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
“See the difference? satan left out “guard you in all your ways”. This is a relevant omission. “Christ’s ways” would be determined by God alone. They would not be the ways that satan was then suggesting. By leaving this part out, satan tried to make it look like God would protect Jesus no matter what He did. But that isn’t what the source passage says. Theoretically, had Jesus fallen for the temptation and jumped, then no one would have protected Him because jumping was not “Christ’s ways”, that would have been “satan’s ways”. Therefore, I would say that satan materially misquoted the scriptures here. But of course, our Lord Jesus would have none of it.”
Frankly, I think you are making more of the comment or reading more into it than it deserves. In any event, here is what +John Chrysostomos says in his Homily XIII on Matthew:
“But mark thou his (the Evil One’s) folly, even by the very testimony which he produced. For while the testimonies cited by the Lord were both of them spoken with exceeding fitness: his, on the other hand, were chance and random sayings, neither did he bring forward on his par that which applied to the matter in hand. For that it is written, “He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee,” this surely is not advice to dash and toss one’s self down headlong; and moreover, this was not so much as spoken concerning the Lord. However, this for the time He did not expose, although there was both insult in his manner of speech, and great inconsistency. For of God’s Son no man requires these things: but to cast one’s self down is the part of the devil, and of demons. Whereas God’s part is to raise up even them that are down. And if He ought to have displayed His own power, it would not have been by casting and tossing Himself down at random, but by saving others. But to cast ourselves down precipices, and into pits, pertains properly to his troop.”
And, as usual, that reponse relies on barbaric theology from a hateful, murdering and evil tyrant.
The role of the Church is well documented in Scripture. The Reformed Scripture appears to have been well emasculated to the point where poisonous theologies in direct opposition to the message of Christ are widely celebrated. I have refrained from returning the compliment of Calvin to the seat of St. Peter; I shall do so no longer.
The evil of Calvinism is precisely in its dissection of Christianity; in the severing of the people from hope and from its innate and intential creation of an undeserved elite that sneer at the undeserved non elite.
I ask again; have you taunted any Reformed non elite today? When you do, does it give the Reformed elite pleasure? Does it give the Reformed God pleasure?
Calvin in life was a theological tyrant and a murderous monster. His offspring, thankfully dying off, provide ample evidence of his evil. I do not think that Calvin was ever important enough to be the antichrist. I do, however, think that he was bought and paid for by satan in the same fashion that the English parliament was when they commissioned, bought and paid for the Westminster Confession.
I’m not talking about those who wrote the scriptures but those who interpret them, perhaps incorrectly? The church is not infallible, nor are those who lead it. And I mean protestants as well as RC and OC.
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