Conclusion from Peru and Mexico

email from Randall Easter | 25 January 2008 | Randall Easter

[kosta50]

I don't have a link. But if I give you my source, then I am being an even worse capitalist!!!

Well, since we have established that you are not a good capitalist, then being a worse capitalist is only a shade; difference of degree not of kind. :)

Thanks for the link.

[Quix]

I noticed when I was in Athens and Corinth . . . especially Athens . . .

Greek . . . argumentativeness, scrappiness, contentiousness, disagreeableness . . . seemed to be virtually a National Pride sort of thing. . . . somewhat like an Arab flavor of something similar, actually.

I am curious . . . if it’s considered more genetic, more nurturance, environment or what? Perhaps you could shed some light on that issue.

[wmfights]

Personally, I still think nobody cared no more than the conservatives who still support Bush and the Republicans who are voting for McCain when both of them are public, loud supporters of drug running, sex slave trading Mohammedan jihadis, care.

Oh yeah, Bush is just so popular among the jihadis.

The best example I can give you is the good old USA being allies with Russia during WWII, Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

America, under Republican leadership, has forfeited any claim to be the protector of the Christians.

Now we are back to that American Exceptionalism you sneered at. You are just wrong.

It falls to Russia and mark my words, the entire Orthodox and Latin Catholic world will be behind that.

Your frustration with the terrible things that have happened to the EOC has really clouded your thinking.

If your looking to Russia you need to open your eyes. They are imploding right in front of us. Their birth rates are about 1.3 per couple. The only part of their population that is growing is the muslim population. They have depopulated huge areas of Siberia.

Militarily, they are a joke. Why do you think they are so opposed to a missile shield? Could it have anything to do with the reality that the only thing they can project power with is missiles. Their training of troops is terrible. They don't have the means to transport troops anywhere. Their navy is rusting out underneath them.

The only thing Russia has is natural resources. They have no history of protecting the rights of individuals, no history of protecting the freedom to worship God. So why would you want to abandon the one super power in the history of man that places God given human rights above all else for this. Is it you long for the days when church and state were one? The days when the ruler determined the religion of the nation?

I rather compete for believers with Bible in hand and THE GOSPEL in my heart.

[wmfights]

Being only 1% in America is pretty much a "fringe group." Now the Jews happen to be 2% and that makes all the difference! :)

They are very forceful in making their opinions known. This is where the EOC has come up short.

[irishtenor]

Very, very good post. Thank you very much. You said it a lot better than I could.

[irishtenor]

Donut seeds, get yer donut seeds here.:>)

[Alamo-Girl]

All of the words of God are Truth – we should never treat them as either/or.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: - Luke 24:25

The fulfillment of prophesy in Psalms 22 shows that God provides signs of His own choosing, not the signs demanded by men.

All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying], He trusted on the LORD [that] he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. - Psalms 22:7-8

And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, Save thyself, and come down from the cross. Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save. Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him. - Mark 15:29-32

That point was also raised in Matthew 12:38-40.

me: That does not mean that visible signs are not present in my life. Indeed, I have testified to many such signs even here on the forum

you: And that proves what? Your testimony is just that. Your word.

Your reaction is not surprising. After all, if one excludes the testimony of Paul, he could hardly be expected to accept the testimony of contemporary Christians.

me: Moreover, of all the signs, the vital one all Christians receive is being reborn in the Spirit.

you: I thought all of scripture is equally important because all of ti is the word of God. Who says what is vital and what isn't? I am asking you again, is St. Mark's quote of Jesus promising signs as evidence of the believers a lie or not?

“Vital” means “belonging or relating to life” (dictionary.net) And God has said what is vital – and it is certainly not the will of man. (emphasis mine)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:1-13

You continued.

me: The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand – God’s copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded “God’s caller ID.”

you: So, now you are callinhg me anti-Christ because you can't prove ythat your testiromony is anything but a feleing and the fact that you can reconcile Mark 16:17-18 with being a believer? Who died and left you to judge?

I didn’t call you anti-Christ. I said you are demanding the same thing the anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand. And I provided the link as evidence to your demand for God's caller ID.

You are not in good company, kosta50.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. - Luke 16:29-31

Then again, doubting Thomas was an Apostle, too.

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed. – John 20:24-29

Perhaps Christ will give you the physical, visible, evidence you demand. Perhaps He will give you His "caller ID."

But you are His and that is His choice to make, not mine.

Still, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

[Forest Keeper]

Dr. E.: Since you've just dismissed capitalism, what "economic system actually protects national interests?" Kindly name it.

Kosta: One that doesn't put greed ahead of the nation. At this moment, we have 13 million illegal aliens in this country because American businesses are willing to hire them as cheap labor, and the government (servants of the people!) look the other way. How patriotic is that?

It is not patriotic because it both breaks and fails to enforce existing law. However, that is a breakdown of a good system, not a normal application of a bad system. So, unless you are genuinely against a free market economy with as little government intervention as is practical (and I hope you're not :), then your real complaint is against certain individuals who are breaking the applicable rules. I would join in that complaint.

[Kolokotronis]

“I suspect few on this thread doubt my ‘screaming’ capacities.”

Certainly not I,Q! :) Nor by the way, am I in the least bit surprised that you were screaming bloody murder.

[Forest Keeper]

Clearly the final causation for religious despotism lies in a belief that certain actions (works) will lead to a purposeful end (ie appease the Deity to achieve reward) while belief in direct revelation can only serve as a formal cause.

Excellent analysis, TC. Thanks.

[Kolokotronis]

“Oh yeah, Bush is just so popular among the jihadis.”

Well, the KLA jihadis in Kosovo plan to put his picture and that of Clinton on the first stamps issued by their little terror state. There are huge Stalinist style pictures of Clinton and Bush in downtown Pristina. I’d say that makes him popular. They already are calling him the godfather of their new statelet.

“Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

I don’t doubt that one minute when it comes to Bush. This administration does view Orthodox Christians as its enemies and thus its alliance with Mohammedan terror in the Balkans. The same likely applies to Bush handing over $500,000,000.00 to Fatah, except the Orthodox enemies there are already marginalized. There its those pesky Jews which his royal Saudi buddies hate so much. And of course any enemy of Saudi Wahabism is an enemy of George Bush.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

reconcile Mark 16:17-18 with being a believer?

What's your problem with these verses? Christ is simply saying the first apostles would have extraordinary gifts in order to more forcefully preach the Gospel in those very early days of Christianity.

The verse you should be looking at, Kosta, is the verse right before these...

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; and he that believeth not shall me damned." -- Mark 16:16

So since these words are clear and concise from Christ Himself, we ask ourselves "believe what?"

And that answer is easy if we read Christ's other words and the words of Scripture --

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins...

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God...

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." -- John 8:24;28-32;42-47;58

"I and my Father are one." -- John 10:30

If we believe in Jesus Christ alone as Lord and Savior, God incarnate; if we believe He is of God and from God and is God; if we believe He died to pay for our sins and was resurrected into heaven to prove it all true; then we can be assured by Christ's own word that we are not damned, but instead are numbered among His sheep who will be glorified with Him in heaven.

You ask for evidence of these facts, and this is where the reformed perspective answers most clearly. This belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is evidence of our salvation; not a requirement for it. The only requirement for our salvation is Christ on the cross "by whose stripes we are healed."

If we give evidence of believing our own good works will redeem us; believing in "another Christ;" believing in a "co-redeemer" or a "dispensatrix of all grace;" then we show ourselves to be believing lies.

And as Christ told us, the evidence of those lies reveals our condemnation.

[Kolokotronis]

“They are very forceful in making their opinions known. This is where the EOC has come up short.”

So if we scream louder the Protestants will hear us and tell the American government to stop siding with the Mohammedans against the Christians? Sort of the squeeky wheel gets the grease theology?

[Quix]

THANKS THANKS.

I think. LOL.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for sharing your insights, and especially thank you for those beautiful Scriptures!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

After all, if one excludes the testimony of Paul, he could hardly be expected to accept the testimony of contemporary Christians.

lolol.

[stfassisi]

God din't make him blind just for that! Blindness like all desease is not from God but from our fallen nature.

Yup!

... And according to the Calvinists even that fallen nature was pre-planned by God

You know ,Dear Brother, The more I think of this, the more I begin to realize that Calvinism lets the devil off the hook on many things.

If God planned everything ,than how can the devil be guilty of tempting sin?

I'll just keep praying for them to wake up!

[HarleyD]

Changed hearts do not care about earning points, changed hearts WANT to serve God, so they DO! :) As you said, it is not in our DNA to trust God completely so God changes our DNA to make it happen. After that, selfish desires go way down and desires to love and obey God go way up.

Great post F-K and wmfights! I was meditating on the following verse in Romans:

Rom 4:19-22 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body already dead (being about a hundred years old) or the deadening of Sarah's womb. He did not stagger at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully persuaded that what God had promised, He was also able to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

It wasn't that Abraham had to try to bear fruit. Abraham believed God would bear fruit through him. He believed the promise of God. It was this trust that God would bear fruit through him that was imputed to Abraham as righteousness.

Likewise, true believers rest upon the promises of God. It is resting on these promises that helps us to grow stronger in our faith.

[HarleyD]

You are dancing around the hot milk, cherry-picking verses as if that is going to invalidate what it says in Mark 16:17-18, which is as clear as it can be that Christ promises visible sings of the believers as part of the great commission.

I haven't followed this conversation as I've been away; however, I find this a curious statement coming from the Orthodox (or a Catholic) whose whole Church is built around visible signs. The idea that statues weep and saints have done miraculous things shouldn't seem strange to you. I would think that you would be a big supporter of Mark 16:17-18.