Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Wonderful!
2Tim.1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
It's all from God.
All we have to do is believe. The indwelling Holy Spirit will guide us to where God wants us. It is not fear of being thrown into hell that guides us. It is the love of our Father in heaven and our Saviour His Son. Works reveal the completed act and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
James 2:20 But do you know, O foolish man , that faith without works is dead?
One of the most misunderstood verses. The works only reveal what is already there. The works did not put the Holy Spirit in the believer. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity to do any works, but he was saved.
I am confident that all of the elect on these threads could point out how they've changed over the years. How the desire to do bad things has diminished and the desire to please God has become more and more important.
I don't know. Das Kapital is a product of the 19th century industrial capitalism and abominable work conditions that neither you nor I would find acceptable.
More importantly, there are many kinds of capitalism; ours being only one of many. Capitalism is still subject to societal norms and limits. You can's say that anything other than our capitalism is socialism. Besides, trying to stay on the subject, not everything capitalism does is necessarily good for the country. Capitalist idolatry is just another form of idolatry.
I digress for a moment to relate a humorous capitalist moment of the 16th century
Wouldn't be the first time. Is this something factual? Got a link to that?
It's free
As they say, that which is free is worth nothing. :)
...even though I, a good capitalist, had to invest my time and effort in something for which I will not receive "maximum individual economic profit"
Then you are not a good capitalis! You wasted your time trying to convince me that I am wrong and your pay is the same. What were you thinking?
K:You had moved to another planet during the Kosovo war, right UC?
I think UC is right. There may have been a lot of anger about what was going on, but I sure don't remember any of it here. All that was reported was how bad the Serbs were. You may be missing the point that what was a huge outcry within the EO community never was heard by the rest of the world.
Where was the RCC in this whole mess. They have a big voice in the media. RC's are a sizable portion of the population.
The Beatitudes tell us that suffering for righteousness sake is a circumstance, and that it earns you the kingdom of heaven. And those who make peace are doing works that make them acceptable to God. And being merciful is work that earns you mercy from God. Where in all this is faith? The Beatitudes are perfectly "Jewish," works-based salvation. Every one of them is a mitzvah.
As I said, next time you see a homeless person, congratulate him. For, his is the kingdom of heaven more likely than ours, according to St. Matthew.
That being said what about this? Did God purpose to send Israel and Joseph into slavery?
There is no evidence of any Jews having left Palestine at that time, let alone any Exodus from Egypt. But, if we assume that God sent Isaac and Jacob to Egypt, then you could say God sent them into slavery.
The problem is that in the Reformed theology God is the cause and source of evil, and evil ceases to be evil because it becomes a tool of God. Sorry, that's not Christianity.
Whatever it is, it teaches that the world is not fallen because of man, but because God wants it as such. And Judas was was the 'lucky' fall guy, because he made Jesus' sacrifice possible...God predestined Judas to hell before he was even born so that Christ may be crucified!
Stfassisi, you are right. Every time I see Calvin and the gang, I see the devil peering from behind them.
We don't always disagree! ;-0
But power brokers may not be as sentimental as an average Evangelical.
I would have said right minded rather than sentimental, but again we agree.
Bottom line is: whether it's Orthodox Greece, or Orthodox Serbia, or even Orthodox Russia, we are more prone to see them as adversaries of the Protestant west than as fellow Christians and often choose their adversaries as our friends and allies.
I don't agree. I think the majority of Born Again Christians don't really think about them other than as a fringe group of Christianity. The EOC is similar to Judaism in that it has been very insular (I don't mean in beliefs). The EOC is not very well known to most Christians not because they would not be interested, but rather because it has not done much to make itself open to them. I suspect that part of this is because the more open the EOC becomes to us Bible thumpers the more we would witness to your members.
The Church condemned war across the board. The Church does not take political stands. Only moral stands.
“You may be missing the point that what was a huge outcry within the EO community never was heard by the rest of the world.”
I didn’t get the impression that UC was asserting that the Orthodox world was screaming bloody murder about Kosovo (which it was, everywhere including here in America) but Americans didn’t know about it because of the American media. Personally, I still think nobody cared no more than the conservatives who still support Bush and the Republicans who are voting for McCain when both of them are public, loud supporters of drug running, sex slave trading Mohammedan jihadis, care. America, under Republican leadership, has forfeited any claim to be the protector of the Christians. You know what that means, WF. It falls to Russia and mark my words, the entire Orthodox and Latin Catholic world will be behind that. I’ll bet even conservative liturgical Protestants, Lutherans for example, will be supportive of that role for Russia.
You're right -- what was I thinking??? They certainly weren't maximum profit thoughts!!!
I don't have a link. But if I give you my source, then I am being an even worse capitalist!!! Oh well. It was in Forever Settled by Dr Jack Moorman.
IIRC,
I screamed about the whole Yugoslave mess etc wherever I made any comments about such things . . . including hereon. I thought Klintoon was up to globalist evils there from the gitgo.
I was outraged about the Muslims getting away with torture and murder on a ‘grand’ scale with western assistance.
I was outraged at Ron Brown’s murder there and considered it murder immediately.
I suspect few on this thread doubt my ‘screaming’ capacities.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
And, at times, my hearing has been the greatest miracle round these parts.
FWIW, God does give us proof of his existence in nature.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen...
As our scientific knowledge has increased the evidence of God's existence is more and more clear.
Christ did not dignify demands for signs, nor will I dignify demands for signs.
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. – Matthew 4:5-7
Moreover, of all the signs, the vital one all Christians receive is being reborn in the Spirit.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things? – John 3:5-12
But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God.
But, man is not the measure of God.
The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand – God’s copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded “God’s caller ID.”
Ironically, all these demands will indeed one day be met – but it will not be pleasant nor in time for man to be the measure of God and thus save himself. (emphasis mine)
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. – Isaiah 45:20-25
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. – Revelation 13:8
That's good. :)
I think the majority of Born Again Christians don't really think about them other than as a fringe group of Christianity
Of course. Being only 1% in America is pretty much a "fringe group." Now the Jews happen to be 2% and that makes all the difference! :)
EOC is similar to Judaism in that it has been very insular (I don't mean in beliefs).
I agree. Most of the missionary work is done by evangelical converts (Orthodox Church of America) who still operate on their Protestant mindset.
Orthodoxy was shut out of the western consciousness for so long because of political realities of the world (Russian isolation and Ottoman Empire) and has contributed very little in the history of the western world and as such remains a virtual unknown.
Moreover, its whole mindset is alien to the west. Being Orthodox in America (a largely Protestant country) is not exactly easy, not because the people are intolerant, but simply because Orthodoxy is "odd" to most Americans.
The EOC is not very well known to most Christians not because they would not be interested, but rather because it has not done much to make itself open to them
That's pretty much it, except that Orthodoxy is open to everyone; however, it is not open to fads. We worship in the same way as those before us.
I suspect that part of this is because the more open the EOC becomes to us Bible thumpers the more we would witness to your members.
The faith is not to be found in the bible. Last time I checked, the books are called "according to...[a human being]." Orthodoxy is a way of life of imitating Christ, according to the Gospels. It's structured around the liturgy. It is closer to Judaism then to anything Protestant.
Oh, baloney! Mark 16:17-18 quotes Christ as promising signs as evidence of the believers. You are cherry picking because what St. Mark says doesn't fit. Are you saying what St. Mark is saying is a lie? Actually, that part of his Gospel does not appear in older manuscripts; are you going to admit that this was a forgery then?
And that proves what? Your testimony is just that. Your word.
I thought all of scripture is equally important because all of ti is the word of God. Who says what is vital and what isn't? I am asking you again, is St. Mark's quote of Jesus promising signs as evidence of the believers a lie or not?
God the Father has revealed Himself in four ways: 1) through the Person of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, 2) through the indwelling Spirit, 3) through Scripture and 4) through Creation, both spiritual and physical.
But science will not recognize this because under "methodological naturalism" it excludes God on principle. This means it accepts that science cannot "measure" God and thus cannot say whether or not He exists; and then proceeds with the assumption that nature is knowable and predictable and therefore, whatever the explanation for a thing is, it will be natural, or material, or physical.
Likewise the "historical critical method" of reading Scripture excludes the power of God on principle.
But here I am addressing specific demands for proof of God. God does not honor such demands, e.g. the demand of the atheist on the forum that if God would give her a bag of M&M's she'd believe He exists.
Man is not measure of God.
You are dancing around the hot milk, cherry-picking verses as if that is going to invalidate what it says in Mark 16:17-18, which is as clear as it can be that Christ promises visible sings of the believers as part of the great commission.
But you have excluded that sign on that very principle - i.e. that it is an experience, a symptom, not outwardly visible to you as the observer or measure of God. I have not exlcudeed anything. I am asking you if you have the visible signs Christ promised will be evident in believers?
The anti-Christ, anti-God, atheist activists demand the same thing you demand – God’s copyright notice, a bag of M&Ms. Or as you once demanded “God’s caller ID.”
So, now you are callinhg me anti-Christ because you can't prove ythat your testiromony is anything but a feleing and the fact that you can reconcile Mark 16:17-18 with being a believer?
Who died and left you to judge?
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