Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Taht's about it...
But the biblical "fact" has to be authenticated by the a priori "knowldge" (gnosis), otherwise it's not a biblical 'fact' is it?
What you call faith is not hope but certainty of the (s)elect, which neither you nor anyone else can prove, so it is pointless to speak of it as a matter of fact.
Claiming such knowldge as fact is at its root Gnostic.
So that's your excuse for their enabling the thousands of Nazi and Croatian Nazi war criminals to escape justice down those infamous Vatican Ratlines??? And BTW, the mullahs during WWII sided with the Nazi's in their political aims and atrocities against the Serbs and the Jews. So just when did the KoM and Vatican switch sides????
Catholicism, Protestantism, and Capitalism: Part I
http://distributist.blogspot.com/2007/01/catholicism-protestantism-and.html
Enjoy
you: This was about unethical businesses doing unethical (illegal) things for greater (but illegal) profits. Profits obtained illegally are illgeal. This was not an endorsement of any other system, but a condemnation of such unethical practices which, in addition to being unethical, also potentially threaten our national security. It was also criticism of all levels of the government for not enforcing existing anti-illegal immigration laws.
But of course, some people who want to monopolize what is American patriotism will not mention greed and business interests that often hurt our national interests...
Good old capitalism at work. It knows no boundaries. As long as it can make profit, it's good....
I also put on an old Nat King Cole cd for K in preparation for Valentine’s Day. These other guys on this ping list are just poseurs when it comes to romance. Their idea of a romantic dinner is pizza, beer and the soft light of WWF tv.
Yeah, the reason I put the word infallible in quotes was because, at least according to Church Tradition, “infallibility” doesn’t necessarily equate “impeccability”. The discussion I had on another thread about the OT being infallible but not impeccable revolved around this point. The person I was discussing with insisted that if there were physical errors from transcription, for example, then that meant the Bible couldn’t be infallible. So, this person insisted that the OT had no physical transcriptional errors, in order to maintain a belief of infallibility in the OT.
Personally, I agree with kosta and others that say that while the Bible may be physically altered and/or contain transcriptional error, that doesn’t mean it’s not infallible. It just means it’s not impeccable. But I was wondering what kosta’s take was on the OT when compared to the NT. Does he think there are more alterations in the NT? Does he believe there are any alterations in the OT at all? etc. Just a point of curiosity; I have no argument ready to spring.
***Their idea of a romantic dinner is pizza, beer and the soft light of WWF tv.
What kind of pizza?
Claiming such knowldge as fact is at its root Gnostic.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Corinthians 2:6-16
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:1-5
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. - John 17:20-23
God proves Himself in His own way, e.g. in fulfilling prophesy. He does not comply with man's demands for proof:
And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, Save thyself, and come down from the cross. Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save. Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him. - Mark 15:29-32
INDEED.
Besides . . . a bag of M & M’s is not worthy to be compared with a drop of the blood of His only Begotten Son.
Which He ALREADY FREELY GAVE.
First, the fact is that is what the scripture clearly says, so those who reject it have to have to deal with God about it.
Second, if anyone is doing works in order to get saved, he does not have perfect love,(1Jn.5:15-18) but is operating from fear, which perfect love drives out.
1Cor.13 is discussing the role of love in performing works and that means that fear cannot be present.
The 'faith plus works' crowd want to ignore clear scripture and the fact that God is quite capable of dealing with those who are saved but reject their Christian walk, by discipline on earth, (Gal.6), even to the sin unto death (1Jn.5), and losses of reward in heaven (2Jn).
What upsets the 'faith plus works' group is that they cannot understand that this is God's plan, not theirs.
Amen to your post!
Capitalism is simply the right of individual ownership of property (Acts.5).
I have told you long ago that your endless verses prove nothing. You cannot prove scripture with scripture just as you cannot prove thet you have indwelling spirit or for that matter that what you know is God.
If I recall, the OT and the Gospels are full of miracles intended to prove that God is God with visible signs. God idd not expect anyone to believe withough eyewitness. And Mark tells us that God in Person reveals that the way we will know who is a true believer will be through visible signs—"they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." [Mark 16:18]
Sure sounds like visible signs of proof to me. You have any of these? Just remember, if you make extraordinary claims, then provide estraiordinary evidence to back them up.
Why, sure it has been altered. They added vowells to it, didn't they? In Hebrew/Aramaic, such a change can change words' menaings drastically. It's like using shp as a word; obviously it can mean anytyhinhg foms hip to shop to shape! The Masoretic text, also doesn't agree 100% with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and then there is the whole issue of the Septuagint.
Christian sources and the Septuagint show a lot more variation (corruption) than the OT copies, although they are not variation-free either, as the DSS show.
As far as the Septuagint is concerned, at least two copies were written by Jews at a later date in an attempt to birng it closer to the Masoretic (Hebrew) Text. The problem with it is that some DSS also agree with the Septuagint on some things. Samaritans also use their own version of the Torah. And lastly, most of the OT was tramsitted by the word of mouth; the oldest copies of OT verses go back to thast time, but not much beyond (there are some claims of silver scrolls dating back to the 7th cen BC but I don't see anyone buying that). We simp-ly have no evidence that as much corruption entered the Ot as the New.
The more important question is what kind of beer?
BTW BD, Nat King Cole did not record any cd's.
The very term “lead” indicates that there are those who choose to follow, and, by corollary, those who choose to not follow.
I don't think we can draw that connection necessarily, at least in the way we commonly use the word "choose". For example, soldiers are drafted and they are led by leaders. If their "choice" is between following that lead or being shot, then there really isn't a connection. Of course there is no comparison to our state with God here. With God, He leads, but unlike normal draftees, He has already prepared them to WANT to follow. There is no force or threat against will at that point. You have called it frogmarching, which implies to me something that is against the will. That isn't how it works, except for the original touch of Holy Spirit. If it is that original touch that is found to be offensive, then all I can do is report that I have never in my life met another Christian, who believes that God changes hearts, who has ever regretted being so touched.
Are you saying that God really didn’t mean that the Jews were the Chosen People? Was God lying? Did He really mean that by “Chosen People”, he meant chosen for hell? This does not follow Scripture in any way.
God was not lying. :) But first we have to decide what "chosen people" means. We can look at this:
Deut 7:6-8 : 6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. 7 The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. 8 But it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
This does not say that all Jews, by virtue of their birth to Jewish parents, are automatically saved and go to Heaven. Genesis 12 says that the Jews were chosen to be a blessing to all the nations of the earth. They were also chosen to be a light to the gentiles. John Gill, in his “Exposition of the Entire Bible” says the Jews were “chosen for special service and worship, and to enjoy special privileges and benefits, civil and religious; though they were not chosen to special grace…or eternal glory.” That only makes sense since the rules for salvation have never changed. Everyone who has ever been or ever will be saved has been so by grace through faith.
God tried everything to lead the Jews to Christ, short of frogmarching them. Isn’t this an indicator that if He didn’t do it with the Chosen People, He doesn’t do it to anyone else?
An omniscient God does not need to "try everything". Rather, He DID everything in order to "get" all the Jews He wanted to be with Him in Heaven. None were lost, as the Bible tells us. So, there is no issue of Him "not doing it" with His chosen people.
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