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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
What you call faith is not hope but certainty of the (s)elect, which neither you nor anyone else can prove, so it is pointless to speak of it as a matter of fact.

Claiming such knowldge as fact is at its root Gnostic.

One who knows another personally - especially one who knows God - demands no proof that He is.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9

But the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit for they are Spiritually discerned:

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Corinthians 2:6-16

As I recall, kosta50, you consider Paul to be gnostic - and reject much of his testimony. But if you reject him for being gnostic, you would also have to reject the Apostle John and these words of God.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:1-5

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. - John 17:20-23

Then again, as I recall, you approach all of the words of God with skepticism.

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. - John 12:47-48

Once upon a time there was an atheist on the forum who said that if God gave her a bag of M&Ms she would believe He exists.

God proves Himself in His own way, e.g. in fulfilling prophesy. He does not comply with man's demands for proof:

All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying], He trusted on the LORD [that] he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. - Psalms 22:7-8

And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, Save thyself, and come down from the cross. Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save. Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him. - Mark 15:29-32

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

1,892 posted on 02/11/2008 12:53:44 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

INDEED.

Besides . . . a bag of M & M’s is not worthy to be compared with a drop of the blood of His only Begotten Son.

Which He ALREADY FREELY GAVE.


1,893 posted on 02/11/2008 1:05:13 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
God proves Himself in His own way, e.g. in fulfilling prophesy. He does not comply with man's demands for proof

I have told you long ago that your endless verses prove nothing. You cannot prove scripture with scripture just as you cannot prove thet you have indwelling spirit or for that matter that what you know is God.

If I recall, the OT and the Gospels are full of miracles intended to prove that God is God with visible signs. God idd not expect anyone to believe withough eyewitness. And Mark tells us that God in Person reveals that the way we will know who is a true believer will be through visible signs—"they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." [Mark 16:18]

Sure sounds like visible signs of proof to me. You have any of these? Just remember, if you make extraordinary claims, then provide estraiordinary evidence to back them up.

1,897 posted on 02/11/2008 3:22:57 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Alamo-Girl; kosta50; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
God proves Himself in His own way, e.g. in fulfilling prophesy. He does not comply with man's demands for proof:

FWIW, God does give us proof of his existence in nature.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen...

As our scientific knowledge has increased the evidence of God's existence is more and more clear.

1,932 posted on 02/12/2008 8:59:32 AM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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