Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
lol, you sign up today and just found your little self over here?
Welcome.
One of us is bowing out and another is coming in.
His/her “little self” could be a 300 lb. wrestler. :-)
Or an elephant in the living room.
I wish I had received an answer from you to my post #1,125.
No matter now.
I am off FR tonight -—closing my account.
God bless all of you.
ROE
You are amazing! In the 5th century BC, Greek historian Herodotus calls the area Palestiné.
And while you are at it, show us the word "Aramaic" in that Greek bible of yours???
The Jews spoke Aramaic and referred to Aramaic as "Hebrew tongue" when Jesus walked the earth. The ancient Hebrew was probably use donly in the temple, but in the synagogues the language was Aramaic. Jewish Encyclopedia reveals that the 1st century Jewish historian
The Temple Hebrew was the OT Hebrew which was not spoken. The Dead Sea Scrolls used a different Hebrew, known as the Mishanic Hebrew.
Jewish Encyclopedia, further, reveals that "The "List of the Fast-Days" (nullMegillat Ta'anit), edited before the destruction of the Temple, was written in Aramaic."
Jewish historian of the 1st century, Josephus Flavius wrote the Jewish War in Old Judean Aramaic. Parts of Old Testament Book of Daniel (Dan. 2:4, 7:28) are written in Aaramaic.
Prophet Nehemiah (13:24) states that the children "could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.".
Ezra verses 4:23, 5:5, 6:13-18 are actually written in Aramaic, not in Hebrew.
The process of Aramaization among Hebrews was a slow process. According to Jewish Encycopedia, around 300 BC (4th century before Chirst), Aramaic appears in Jewish literature.
Furthermore, Jewish Encyclopedia reflects on the religious language of the 1st century Palestinian Jews revealing that even the languge of the scripture was Aramaic and the scripture itself (the Targum) was in Aramaic:
"The tannaitic Halakah speaks of the Targum as an institution closely connected with the public Bible-reading, and one of long-established standing. But, just as the translation of the Scripture lesson for the benefit of the assembled people in the synagogue had to be in Aramaic, so all addresses and homilies hinging upon the Scripture had to be in the same language. Thus Jesus and his nearest disciples spoke Aramaic and taught in it (see Dalman, "Die Worte Jesu")."
You are reading literally and out of context of Palestinian reality and culture in the 1st century BC, and you are drawing erroneous conclusions. Read more history and the Bible will make a lot more sense.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matthew 6:12-15
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. - Mark 11:24-26
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
It’s been enormously sad and excruciatingly painful how many refresher courses I’ve had to take in those truths to finally MOSTLY get it. Awesome truths that absolutely play out vividly in the lives of believers but also in the lives of unbelievers.
God’s Word is simply TRUTH . . . Certainly the truth about God; our relationship with God . . . but also about the way His Creation, reality, works.
Thx.
Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it. - Jeremiah 1:12
Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63
John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin , because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
It could be anything
Quick-tempered leaders are like mad dogs— cross them and they bite your head off.
Don't eavesdrop on the conversation of others. What if the gossip's about you and you'd rather not hear it? You've done that a few times, haven't you—said things Behind someone's back you wouldn't say to his face?
Why do you feel the necessity to carry water for MarkBsnr? He seems like a intelligent enough person to handle his own affairs. If he felt slighted in some way he could have responded directly to me. Are you the den mother for the Romanists? Mark threw some bombs my way as well yet your scales seem to be rigged when it comes to finding fault. Did I waste Megabytes of webspace to whine about a perceived fault? No. When my comment was called a joke I made a joke.
Be especially careful when you are trying to be good so that you don't make a performance out of it. It might be good theater, but the God who made you won't be applauding. 2-4"When you do something for someone else, don't call attention to yourself. You've seen them in action, I'm sure—'playactors' I call them— treating prayer meeting and street corner alike as a stage, acting compassionate as long as someone is watching, playing to the crowds. They get applause, true, but that's all they get. When you help someone out, don't think about how it looks. Just do it—quietly and unobtrusively. That is the way your God, who conceived you in love, working behind the scenes, helps you out.
The other two comprise directly calling a poster "dopey".
The "dopey" comment was brought up by another Romanist and I merely used his terminology but you already knew that, right? Acknowledging that would not help your case so you think it wise to slander me through omission.
When you see God reach out to those you consider your inferiors—outsiders!— you'll become insanely jealous. When you see God reach out to people you think are religiously stupid, you'll throw temper tantrums. Isaiah dared to speak out these words of God: People found and welcomed me who never so much as looked for me. And I found and welcomed people who had never even asked about me. Then he capped it with a damning indictment: Day after day after day, I beckoned Israel with open arms, And got nothing for my trouble but cold shoulders and icy stares.
In my exile I have had the salutary experience of watching the posts go by. And it is simply astonishing not only how little our thinking is understood, but how those who misunderstand seem to prefer not understanding the enemy (for such they think we are) to knowing the truth about us.
Yes, we understand your position. Any criticism of Romanism is wrong and no one outside of Romanism can really understand all her subtle nuances, even trained ministers. Romanists never engage in polemics against protestants and always understand Protestantism completely. "Heal thyself".
Don't pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults— unless, of course, you want the same treatment. That critical spirit has a way of boomeranging. It's easy to see a smudge on your neighbor's face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, 'Let me wash your face for you,' when your own face is distorted by contempt? It's this whole traveling road-show mentality all over again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face, and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbor.
And yes, I quite seriously think that some of the posters here have serious "issues" such as I have described.
Your continual portrayal of person(s) on this forum as mentally unstable is disgusting. I believe a public apology is in order.
God, they murdered your prophets, They trashed your altars; I'm the only one left and now they're after me! And do you remember God's answer? I still have seven thousand who haven't quit, Seven thousand who are loyal to the finish. It's the same today. There's a fiercely loyal minority still—not many, perhaps, but probably more than you think. They're holding on, not because of what they think they're going to get out of it, but because they're convinced of God's grace and purpose in choosing them. If they were only thinking of their own immediate self-interest, they would have left long ago.
I mentioned the new "diagnosis" of “Sado-Evangelism” to him, and he just shook his head, and then laughed ruefully....I will be putting up a moderated forum on the topic of S-E within 10 or so days. I'm going to be gathering anecdotes from people who have been targeted by people claiming to be presenting the Gospel of Christ, especially those who explicitly or implicitly say that they are being intentionally cruel for the sake of our souls, and trying to classify and organize them and then I’m going to run the observations by some pros I know.
I'm sure you'll all have a great time in the echo chamber. No doubt the Jews of old held similar forums discussing those nasty prophets. Evangelism will always be sadistic because it cuts to the bone and heart of the natural man. He cannot help but feel offended because his pride is crushed by his sinfulness. Then the natural man will either fall to his knees or "kick against the goad". Here's my sophisticated evangelical methodology.
1. Speak the truth.
2. Let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
Here's the message
Repent: Throw away the idols and superstitions of Rome.
Believe:
REST IN CHRIST ALONE
REST IN CHRIST ALONE
REST IN CHRIST ALONE
Believe that Christ, not only paid for your sins, but also is your perfect righteousness.
I repeat, I don't get it. And I'd guess that if it's too bad to say on Sunday, it's probably not going to be good enough to say on any other day.
Yes, I know. The Regulative Principle of Worship says that only God can determine true worship through his special revelation and all the manmade additions of Rome are an abomination to God. Part of the RPW is to rest from our work on the Sabbath and enjoy God. It has nothing to do with whether it was "good" or "bad" to say on the Sabbath.
Thank you, good bye, good luck
Yikes! That I did not know. That's not encouraging at all that the hierarchy has actually recognized the problem.
The problem will never be corrected until fallible men stop telling children they are "another Christ."
I fear that you are right. Against that level of claimed power a person of limited spiritual development, especially a child, stands little chance.
So when you wrote "Hell," of course I went off!
And maybe this is technical., It's be said lots and lots of times. To say the Church or the Pope is infallible is NOT to say that every "they" or he says is true. AS far as Papal infallibility is concerned, it's got to be in the "Declare and define" category, not just the "signed off on it" category.
This is another case where the appearance of seeking to misunderstand raises its head, even if it turns out to be faulty. Purgatory is MAJORLY different from Hell. Everyone in Purgatory knows s/he is going to Heaven.Of BXVI's latest book on Jesus he specifically says that it is not infallible, thus showing the distinction.
Some time, for a less heated consideration of the mess, you might want to take a peek at C.S. Lewis's account. But in any event, it was seen to be a totally dumb move and the Church learned from it. WE don't hide that AND it doesn't interfere with our understanding of infallibility.
Neither is enabling.
I have noticed outside this forum that the abusers are often advising their victims that it's not good to cling to the past. It's essentially an attempt to enlist their targets in the PD sufferer's denial. That's one way PD's strike me as similar to chemical dependency. Then I suggest you post your thread about your self-titled term, S-E ("sado-evangelism") in Chat, because it certainly doesn't belong on the Religion Forum.
Those who take the trouble to discover the meaning of the opinion or statement with which they want to disagree BEFORE they disagree, will already know that the moderated forum will not be on FR.
... then I think your friend was probably thinking you were being awfully defensive about something and that your attempted humor in coining the term "sado-evangelism" was pretty sick, and that finally you'd be much better off "letting go" and doing as Peter instructed us...Actualkly, what he did was tell me some stories of his victimization by S-E types. And as for the Peter excerpt, when I see some discernible meekness, you can be sure I will respond in kind. Haven't seen much yet."But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." -- 1 Peter 3:15
That is rarely true. Rarely. IN two ways is it false:
(1) Repetition time and time again of the same quote(s) from Scripture is not any kind of debate at all. WHen it is happening, debate is not happening.
(2)What is often being debated is
(a)What some Protestants SAY they THINK we believe, not what we in fact teach or believe, and therefore
Whether we in fact believe the ridiculous things we are said to believe becomes the subject of debate.
Look at the recent flurry over Tetzel and indulgences. I had to take time out to (a) explain that nobody ever in any way talked about buying one's way out of hell, and (b) do a little work on the difference between hell and purgatory, and (c)try to convey that while I could see that from Harley's point of view that might be merely technical, it actually went right to the heart of the matter.
AMEN Dr. E.! :) We leave to God those things the Bible teaches belong to God alone. We say: "that's not man's power, that's God's power". For this we are said to be our own Pope. Go figure. :)
I guess our problem is that we just give too much power to God. The universe would be much more fair if power was more evenly distributed between man and God. Let's think, if God actually had all the power, then how could man derive any meaning from his acts? As they say, whatever we do would be "meaningless" unless man was in control. Therein lies the rub. Does man derive meaning about himself and the universe FROM himself or from God?
I have recently been studying some of the "great" philosophers of the last 500 years who all insisted that man is the only logical starting point from which to derive meaning. As if you did not already know, ALL of them failed miserably to come up with a cogent explanation for a myriad of basic questions including about the purpose of man and the universe, and the relationship between God and man. No man and no group of men can explain those types of answers from themselves, lo they have tried, and still do.
And thanks for the spot on scriptures, as usual. :)
So -- is that all??? No one else? Josephus?? Tacitus??? any other Greeks closer to the relevant time??? You are basing your claim on one 5th century BC Greek??? == Please.
The Jews spoke Aramaic and referred to Aramaic as "Hebrew tongue" when Jesus walked the earth.
So you are saying that there was no Greek word for "Aramaic" in Greek in those days and the closest word to it was the Greek word for "Hebrew"???? Is that what you are claiming???????
Jewish Encyclopedia reveals that the 1st century Jewish historian "Josephus [Flavius] considers Aramaic so thoroughly identical with Hebrew that he quotes Aramaic words as Hebrew ("Ant." iii. 10, § 6), and describes the language in which Titus' proposals to the Jerusalemites were made (which certainly were in Aramaic) as Hebrew ("B. J." vi. 2, § 1)."
So then if the languages were so nearly identical, it could reasonably be said that the Syrians were speaking Hebrew not Aramaic, rather than vice versa, right???? Adopted words had entered the Hebrew language from Aramaic, Greek, Latin, Chaldean, etc since the days when those scriptures were written, but adopted words just like adopted children take the name and heritage of their adopting parents -- not vice versa.
The Temple Hebrew was the OT Hebrew which was not spoken.
So when Jesus read the Hebrew scroll of Isaiah no body understood him???? or did they remark that he taught as one having great authority because his Hebrew aligned perfectly with the words that he had been giving to his people since the days of Moses???
What you forget, kosta, is that religious Jews, those Jews who regarded their Mosaic heritage, and valued the Hebrew scriptures, and hung around the Temple and synagogues where those Hebrew scriptures were taught, would have spoken and understood a Hebrew closer to the original Hebrew of the scriptures -- Temple Hebrew, as you call it.
Those Jews who kept those original Hebrew scriptures in their heart, and hung around the Temple and synagogues where they could be learned and understood and memorized were the Jews who responded to Jesus when he came and received their Messiah. Knowing the Hebrew scriptures, they recognized him as the author of those Hebrew scriptures that they had in their heart. He spoke their language and they understood his words and that language was the Hebrew of the Hebrew scriptures.
(See? I can do the "stopped beating your wife" thing as well.)
Seriously, I misunderstood. Yes. correction noted, thank you.
Wow, I note for the first time an adversary riffing on my "handle". Your continual portrayal of person(s) on this forum as mentally unstable is disgusting. I believe a public apology is in order.
Not necessarily. Not if it's true. And not if the best and kindest way to deal with this kind of thing is to take away the cover.
Not carrying water for MarkBsnr. Complaining, (evidently when a Catholic raises a beef it's called "Whining", so) whining about a style of communication and thinly veiled personal assault. MarkBsnr is a big boy and can take care of himself.When my comment was called a joke I made a joke.
What am I tho think about your holding your behavior up as an example and immediately afterwards giving a quote about not making a performance of your good deeds?
The "dopey" comment was brought up by another Romanist and I merely used his terminology but you already knew that, right?
Wrong, actually. But whoever brought up the term, you aimed at at an individual. That's not my notion of speaking the truth of resting in Christ. Is it yours?
Yes, we understand your position.
You follow that with so great a misstatement of my position that it is mind-boggling. So, no, you, at least, do not understand my position. And the issue is not that it's so hard to understand, but that some evidently haven't taken the trouble to understand it.
You also don't know all my communications. I've taken shots from people on my side when I suggested they might be acting too harshly.
Here's my sophisticated evangelical methodology.
1. Speak the truth.
2. Let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
And this explains calling people dopey? Is that the truth part or the Holy Spirit part?
I have seen spousal and child abuse, including child sexual abuse, and "substance abuse" AND the related abuse of persons concealed and prolonged until the effects are life-altering to the point of life-destroying.
And the Perps said longest and loudest, "Let's let bygones be bygones," as their targets and victims wilted and languished around them.
I note the incredible asymmetry here. We are told repeatedly, with a book jacket posted, that our devotions and belief are pathological. No one actually develops the concept, it seems that all that it required is to question the health of our motives for our practices.
I see no rebuke from you for that, and Quix is one of those who keeps it going.
And now that I am naming what I see, and others are saying they see it to, now I am cautioned against cherishing anger and being judgmental?
Is being aware that one is observing victimization worse than victimizing folks? IS that the contention here -- that it is better to abuse than for the abused to know that they are being abused and to point it out?
One of the reasons abuse is so dreadful is precisely that it tempts the victim to cherishing anger and all the things you say. Lewis writes well about this in his book on the Psalms. So that IS a fight I must fight, and a plea for protection I must make, and it's why I pray for abusers and the enemies of the Church at almost every opportunity.
But the fact that some are tempted, and succumb, to the sins you mention does not in itself prohibit pointing out the sins of the victimizers. Here we have some who have been repeatedly asked NOT to provoke and who finally say provocation is a purpose of theirs. And when this is noted, suddenly it's all wrong for the person who is provoked to notice and say so, while those who proudly provoke are comforted and defended?
Finally, distinguo: Forgiving is one thing. Observing is another. One can observe and forgive at the same time. Some people would prefer not to be either observed nor forgiven. Often, for such people, "Forgiveness" is taken to be permission and even tacit approval. If you note but neither give permission nor approval, you are then called unforgiving.
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