Posted on 12/28/2007 9:19:39 AM PST by Huber
H, its really quite simple. All anyone needs to understand is that The Evil One and his demons exist and are active agents in the world. His purpose is to prevent us, for his own purposes, from attaining theosis which is our created purpose. When demons are howling, I mean really howling, outside monasteries at night, there are no discussions about whether or not what is being heard is "intrinsically evil" or not. Ever since the descent to hades after the Crucifixion, the bonds of death by which we were held hostage by The Evil One have been shattered, but we can still be lead into damnation. None of that, H, is about fine distinctions between what is and is not "intrinsically evil". To believe that it is, in even a tiny measure, is the result of what The Evil One does so well, convince humans that he doesn't exist. Even the way the West says the Lord's Prayer is indicative of this. H, this piece is the epitome of Jesuitical Romanism. It advances a notion which is socially and more importantly, theologically and spiritually dangerous.
You are, of course correct on this point.
yes...and too many pregnancies can also result in dangers to physical health - and cause a person to become so overwhelmed they find they aren’t being as good a parent as their children deserve.
This latter point is, however, one commonly employed by secular humanists, and undergirds not just many arguments for contraception, but arguments for abortion as well.
"Jesuitical Romanism" - Are you channeling certain characters on here?? :-P
With regard to the Lord's Prayer, are you going to blanket characterize "the West" due to the English version of it? You should be at least vaguely familiar with the Latin version of it. "Sed libera nos a malo" "Malo" could be masculine or neuter. It reflects the Greek in this regard.
“I have found it a real challenge to get across to people what is
meant by saying that some acts are “intrinsically evil.””
He should have had them watch “Most Evil” on The Discovery Channel.
Anyone doubting “evil” after watching that show is either evil or decorticated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Evil
“Jesuitical Romanism” - Are you channeling certain characters on here?? :-P”
Well...its at least Jesuitical (Now remember, P, I have a dear cousin who’s one of those guys). It is a dangerous piece though because the notions it expands upon are dangerous. On a number of occasions here I and other Orthodox posters have commented that the West has a problem dealing with the reality of Evil. The lunacy and incompetence shown by Western governments, first and foremost by our own George Bush and his TROP comment, in their failure to take seriously and then deal with the demonic death cult of Mohammedanism in our own countries let alone out in the Mohammedan world, is the best example I can think of of this, but our societal reactions to crazed gunmen in shopping malls demonstrate the same thing. And that failure may mean the end of our civilization, at least in the form we know it. What the Latin Church has taught and teaches means there’s always a way to explain away or avoid “evil”. The truth is, the Evil One is far more cunning than we are and there is no way to avoid or nuance or explain away that “Evil”. But the West doesn’t believe that. The West contents itself with word games and philosophical constructs it learned from my pagan ancestors.
“This latter point is, however, one commonly employed by secular humanists, and undergirds not just many arguments for contraception, but arguments for abortion as well.”
but it can also be employed by someone who has tried their best to follow the teaching, but found NFP to be completely unreliable.
Someone who has been seeking advice from priests for years on this matter, and has made an honest effort to make it work.
Someone who is now pregnant with their 8th child, who is literally capable of having one baby per year and is overwhelmed.
bttt
You are right, but it has no origin in the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. It has its origin in the Renaissance.
“In light of what you said, what do you make of this?”
You KNOW I’m not surprised to read this, P! Do you think +BXVI is in the tradition of the post Schism popes?
What do you mean?
” I have therefore always held it as a matter of faith that the Just Judge will forgive those soldiers, sailors, and other fighting men who have (without ill intent) taken innocent lives in their effort to defens the innocent from an aggressor.
I agree.”
Just war theory? Do really believe that? By the way, of course God will forgive those who truly repent but it would seem that in your construct and that of the West, there is nothing to repent for.
See what I mean, P?
I’m puzzled. You seem to be promoting the existence of the Evil One, K., but at the same time rejecting the philosophical identification of human intention-and-action performances (trying to hit JP2’s meaning on the point the article’s author emphasises ...) that are “intrinsically evil” as the author says, or “always wrong” or “disordered,” etc.
I don’t see your point. Surely both are true. The Devil and his work amid humanity is real ... AND theologically-informed reason can tell us that certain human intended acts are always against God’s Will.
Or am I missing the whole schmear? Sometimes it seems that what’s obvious to me is too basic for the Subtle.
“Or am I missing the whole schmear?”
Yup, I’m afraid so. Your comments on soldiers in war demonstrate that. By the way, with all due respect to him, +JPII was, at least in comparison to +BXVI and most of our Patriarchs and major metropolitans, a pedestrian theologian at best. Great showman, though, if you like that sort of thing.
Of course, you know Just War theory has its origin in St. Augustine. It is the application of the right to self-defense to a societal scale.
Yup; you understand that giving the theory an Augustinian pedigree doesn't help it with the Orthodox. Orthodoxy ALWAYS holds that war is "αμαρτια"!
I'm not sure what you mean. Do I believe "just war theory"? I guess I do, although it confuses me - IF it's a matter of Catholic Faith and Morals that I signed on to when I became a Catholic. Not everything in Aquinas is. I get confused easily. I don't strive after things too high for me. I have bathrooms to clean and diapers to change and a new low-water-usage washer coming on Monday.
Do I believe that my brothers (uncles, great uncles, great-great grandfathers, whatever those guys were) who fought, killed, or died, in WW2, WW1, the Civil War, the Indian Wars, and so on, "... laid down their lives for the sake of their friends ..." have a place in God's infinite mercy? You bet I do. God is more loving and merciful than I am. (I know myself, and that's an inarguable Truth.) He sees everything about all of us, and is the Only Just Judge.
I saw them; I heard them, when I lived in Southern Tennesee. I saw the Confederate dead at Lookout Mountain, and in my own yard on the Duck River in Manchester, and at Franklin. I saw them. Those simple, good Christians who died for their friends and neighbors are with God. I'm pinging some of my Southern friends because I'm not subtle enough to explain to the Greeks.
Did they "repent"? I think everyone who has to kill to survive repents. If a person isn't sorry it came to that, that he had to kill another man, then he isn't human.
I’ll be (hopefully) learning Greek when I enter seminary, but in other words... ;-)
I’m learning New Testament Greek with my deranged six-year-old, but our vocabulary is still limited. “War is always ‘amartia’?” That seems oxymoronic.
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