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Locked on 11/29/2007 12:25:49 PM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Poor behavior |
Posted on 11/25/2007 4:20:14 AM PST by Gamecock
That seems to be the case.
Notice how most LDS apologists have resorted to a wide variety of strawmen, ad homs and other diversionary tactics rather than actually addressing the material written by former Mormons.
If the use of the term offends another Freeper, even if it was not used with an improper motive - it is in good form to quit using it, especially on the Religion Forum.
Exactly. Thanks!
Sounds like a reasonable explanation for then-LDS Prophet Spencer W. Kimball's Sept 30, 1978 revelation to me.
Are you ascribing your own motives to the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?
Okay, then it is merely a “sin of omission”.
Romney Apologizes For ‘Tar Baby’
should you?
Why? I didn’t use the term.
++++++++++++++==
Nice try, and it sounds good because you didnot give the rest of the story. Go back and tell us what Brother Joesph and Brother Brigham said about the day the blacks would hold the Priesthood. Remember, there is more then one example, so get many. Or even just a few.
“Romney Apologizes For ‘Tar Baby’”
I goofed again
should be
Sounds like a reasonable explanation for then-LDS Prophet Spencer W. Kimball’s Sept 30, 1978 revelation to me.
+++++
I will repeat the yest here because I goofed
Nice try, and it sounds good because you didnot give the rest of the story. Go back and tell us what Brother Joesph and Brother Brigham said about the day the blacks would hold the Priesthood. Remember, there is more then one example, so get many. Or even just a few.
I’m amazed that the “father-daughter” aspect of this story has not been talked about more on this thread.
It seems like we’ve been taken down a detour by a ‘tar baby’ comment.
I hate to say this, but Romney’s candidacy is making me lose patience with the LDS organization.
Now that would be nigh impossible for me to do. You see, I've never been motivated to utter a prophetic revelation myself(real or imagined). How could I ascribe my own motives for giving a prophetic revelation if I've never been motivated for giving a prophetic revelation on that subject myself??
So your implication is that either he is a liar or?????
Come now, I have been chastized today by the RM so let’s just say it is your turn to be honest!
So your implication is that I have not been honest up until now?????
Now, even though I believe it may be true, I am certainly not going to say anything to get the RM back on me. Are you next going to say that Joseph Smith was a convicted criminal? If you say that and do not cite the date and court of the conviction, be prepared for a visit yourself from the RM.
Agreed.
The "better" LDS apologists will try to dodge this aspect by emphasizing that (a) they still believe in a "virgin" birth of some sort; and (b) saying something to the effect that it wasn't necessarily Heavenly Father-Mary sexual relations which produced Jesus as offspring.
I guess I'd like to know how both "The LDS Christmas Story" (citations & all) fits into the LDS apologists' view in light of the following LDS general authority citations:
Citation 1: "...As the horse, the ox, the sheep, and every living creature, including man, propogates its own species & perpetuates its own kind, so does God perpetuate His." LDS prophet John Taylor, Mediation & Atonement, 1882, p. 165
[Any of you farmers had any immaculate conceptions in light of Taylor's pronouncement?]
Citation 2: "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—-was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." LDS prophet Brigham Young JoD, vol. 8, p. 115
[Notice that historic Christianity puts the emphasis on the birth of Christ being a supernatural event, whereas Brigham twice emphasizes it being only a natural event].
Now, it's important in all of this to remember the backdrop of how LDS see Heavenly Father:
(1) He's a physical ex-mortal man with a physical body, sexual organs & all.
(2) His spirit babies in the so-called "pre-existence" were born via sexual relations with an unnamed goddess or goddesses...in which even Eliza Snow wrote a hymn about that's in all the LDS hymnals. Note this Young quote which fleshes this out:
"God...created man [as spirit children], as we create our children: for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be." LDS prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 122
[I would say Brigham sounds a bit all-encompassing & comprehensive w/such a statement, wouldn't you all? So if Young thought that spirit babies were created in heaven by the same "natural" process of sexual relations, then there was nothing objectionable to him to having viewed Mary as yet another "wife" of Heavenly Father].
OMM: Now, even though I believe it may be true, I am certainly not going to say anything to get the RM back on me.
Cue ominous music....
Are you next going to say that Joseph Smith was a convicted criminal? If you say that and do not cite the date and court of the conviction, be prepared for a visit yourself from the RM.
Well, if you think I should - and I don't know why you'd think I was going to "say it next" or what it has to do with Brer Rabbit or the LDS Christmas story - but here goes:
"Joseph Smith was a convicted criminal."
I have multiple URLs supporting this historical and legal fact saved on my HD. Which one would you like to debate first?
Now OMM, I go into FR every day prepared for a visit from the RM. And if he and I were ever to meet up in the same city, I'd invite him to knock back a few beers with me as we discuss theology and politics (and yes RM, that's a standing offer from yours truly). I encourage and welcome any and all visits from the RM, official or unofficial. The question is, do you?
Ummmmm...the silence is telling.
So, if I complain that "something offends me", will I get to muzzle someone?
Oh?
Are YOU attributing my words to be such?
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