Joseph Smith: Creator of the Fourth Abrahamic Faith; Mormonism

Auhtor's website ^ | September 15, 2007 | G. Richard Jansen

[Tao Yin]

Mormons refer to the Catholic Church as the “whore of babylon”.

That's nothing. In the Lutheran Book of Concord we equate the office of the pope with the Antichrist. Let's see, whore or Antichrist. I think we win.

[rface]

thanks for the info. I am now better learned

[joebuck]

"What were Christians before the Nicene Creed?"

Pretty much the same as after only now they had the Creed to use in battling the heresies of the Gnostics, Donatists, Montanists, etc. etc.

[pgyanke]

Joseph Smith: Creator of the Fourth Abrahamic Faith; Mormonism,

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; (Psalm 127:1)

[rface]

Pretty much the same as after only now they had the Creed to use .....

I am not so sure. I do know that it was quite a battle between Christians....back in the day.....to actually come up with a Creed that could more-or-less, be agreed upon.

[Revelation 911]

How do the different sects (denominations?) of Christians recognize other Christians?

ping

[nesnah]

I guess the bottom line to the Mormon religon has to do with this:

Would you trust a guy that places two rocks in a hat, covers his face with said hat, and dictates (ahem, translates) an alleged religious work that is not even in his presence?

That’s how it happened, and, if you believe Joseph Smith, then may I interest you in a parcel of ocean-front land I have for sale in Arizona?

[Resolute Conservative]

No, I just don’t credit them with something they are not. That is not judgmental that is being factually correct. If you go out and claim to be a lawyer but you cannot produce that law degree and bar exam result then you were not and can be prosecuted under law. That is not being judgmental that is just being identified for what you are or are not. If you do not fill the requirements for being a Christian then you are not one no matter what you claim.

If they want to be known as a Christian they need to renounce the Book of Mormon and the Mormon belief in salvation and the Godhead and accept Christ as the only way to everlasting life period.

[Tao Yin]

The Creed divided the Christians into Christian and Arian. The Creed didn't eliminate the Arians, it just split them out. It was a contributing factor to the fall of the Roman Empire. The Arians existed well past the Roman Empire and into the Germanic kingdoms. I think the Arians died out about the 8th century.

[Elyse]

How do the different sects (denominations?) of Christians recognize other Christians?

If someone tells me that they are going to become a god and rule their own world, I can easily recognize that they aren't a Christian.

[TheDon]

[tumblindice]

Furthermore, Joseph Smith was dictating to a gullible disciple, who quit his job to take dictation (since Joe could read a little, but could not write).
They were separated by a blanket hung on a line because Joe was concerned that the sight of the golden tablets would make the novice go blind. Or something.
The secretary’s wife showed up, confiscated all the notes (and her husband) and then challenged Joe to either repeat the first page or two of revelations, or a reasonable fascsimile, so she could compare them to the preserved `gospel’.
Joe punted and found another set of tablets. And a bachelor secretary.

[Hillary4Penetentiary]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure I’ve read that he never showed anyone the golden plates. He

That is incorrect. A total of 11 people were shown the plates, including 3 who testified that they were shown the plates, at the same time, by an angel. 12 saw the plates if you include Smith’s wife who handled them. Of these 11, all were allowed to handle the plates and examine them.

Here is the statement of the 3 who were shown the plates by an angel: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/thrwtnss

Here is the statement of 8 others who were allowed to examine the plates with no angelic ministrant involved: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/eghtwtns

All of the 11 stood by their testimonies of having seen the plates and in the case of the 3 the angels throughout their life even though several fell away from the church, though some later returned.

[fishtank]

I like your sense of humor......

:-)

all in good fun.....

[Domandred]

and the Bible is the infallible Word of God

Which version? If the Bible is the infallible Word of God then I want to make sure I have the infallible version. Nobody has yet been able to tell me which it is. Why is that? And if the Bible is infallible then why do we keep getting new and updated translations that say different things?

They also place the Book of Mormon above the Bible as pathway to salvation.

False. The Bible even gets top billing in our Articles of Faith. We consider the King James Version the most correct translation of the Bible.

We consider the Book of Mormon at most equal to the Bible, but it is not complete. The BoM will even tell you as much directly. The Bible will even tell you it is not complete if you read it, though not directly.

[Hillary4Penetentiary]

LOL, talk about a straw man argument. You just pick up the word "cult," and then conveniently fit some aspects of the Mormon church to fit that definition, some of which weren't even accurate by the way. Dictionary.com defines the word cult to mean simply this, not the contrived definition you cooked up: Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This cult /kʌlt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhlt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

[Colofornian]

Hey, the Pharisees were living their lives focusing on living righteously, but for some reason, Jesus didn't speak too well of them (just look at John 8). I didn't know the Pharisees believed in Christ. Oh, wait, they didn't. Not a very accurate comparision.

The Pharisees claim the same heritage as do the Mormons (Abraham). At the time of Christ's earthly "visit," the Jews were indeed considered as God's covenant people and sought godly righteousness. (The only ones then who "believed" in Jesus were his disciples and some of those who had seen his miracles.)

[fishtank]

I think in my church, that we WOULD recognize an RCC baptism if it were an adult believer’s baptism (of course in the RCC, it WOULD be Trinitarian), and if the individual is certain that at the point of their adult baptism that they had come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

We wouldn’t ‘recognize’ an infant baptism, though.

Disclaimer:

I go to an independent non-denominational evangelical Protestant church.

[nesnah]

Not exactly correct, but close enough. Actually, the first person Old Joe enlisted to be his scribe was a wealthy bumbler named Martin Harris. It was his wife that saw through the ruse and got her hands on the first 116 pages that had been dictated. She felt that if Old Joe was truly dictating/translating, that it would be a simple task to re-do those 116 pages that were now ‘lost’. But, Old Joe had his-self a bit of a problema, as he knew he could not re-dictate word for word, so he came up with some excuse about using another set of plates. The story would be basically the same, just told a little differently.