Posted on 11/14/2007 8:28:07 AM PST by fortcollins
I’ve always wondered why the “works aren’t needed” crowd even bother. If works aren’t required, shouldn’t they just throw their Bibles away and party? After all, they are saved, and nothing they can do will help out.
Thanks for the ping!
Yep I’ve had the same thought many times. Why bother even printing a Bible? Just print out a single sheet of paper about the size of a fortune cookie strip that says “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. Apparently that’s really all that is needed.
Hmmmm...that sounds suspiciously like a work...
I read a scripture today and it really was brought into sharper view because of the teachings of the standard works those who do not value the standards works would miss what was before their eyes!
Matt. 5:
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: ("receive Telestial glory")
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ("receive Celestial Glory")
Rev 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Rev. 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
John 14:
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
D&C 59:
2 For those that live shall inherit the earth, and those that die shall rest from all their labors, and their works shall follow them; and they shall receive a crown in the mansions of my Father, which I have prepared for them.
D&C 76:
111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;
D&C 98:
18 Let not your hearts be troubled; for in my Father’s house are many mansions, and I have prepared a place for you; and where my Father and I am, there ye shall be also
That seems to be their attitude. No charity, no help for one’s fellow human beings, none of that stuff that the Lord specifically mentioned to do.
In the ‘penumbra’ of “...I shall command my people...” you’ll find all KINDS of things permitted, commanded, banned, changed, or awaiting a future time.
The ball will ALWAYS be in your court!
Isn't that convenient?
Some Moroni angel stole the proof that this isn't a cult.
Very nice, very pat.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
Kinda makes you wonder WHY? doesn't it.
The shear amount of hubrus of the “they’re pickin’ on me” crowd is gagging; considering the foundation their organization is built upon!
It varies among these states from year to year (they move up & down).
Try reading it on its own merit before throwing it out.
Aye aye aye. I just can’t seem to catch my tail today. The movie Ground Hog day comes to mind.
None of them will ever answer that question lest they see the shortcomings of their sect and see the true Word and realize they are living in darkness no matter how good a person Mormonism has made them.
It's about halfway down: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305qq.asp
... and seeing how I just started a 6 month project that must be finished in 2 months...
...And as my conundrum is the same as 3 Nephi 7:17 “... all of them cannot be written, and a part of them would not suffice, therefore they are not written...”
I am bowing our of FR, at least for the next couple months. If you have something urgent that you genuinely would like me to respond to, please FRmail me. I will check that periodically. There are many LDS folks that can and have answered for me. Many thanks to them and I’d say keep up the good work, but I’m not so sure it’s a good work... Here’s why...
As it stands, I ask you all a rhetorical question, something that you can think about.
1. What is the source of your interest in my faith? Your own curiosity/study? Questions which arise from your observation of my life? Or does it come from what you’ve been told by detractors, multiple web sites, your own dissatisfaction with the Church, or even the FR feeding frenzy that happens every time a Romney or Mormon thread is created? Ask yourselves where you’re coming from!
2) Why do some folks spend so much time/energy putting down what is sacred to others? That effort comes at the expense of promoting what they themselves find to be praiseworthy or of good report... love and faith in Jesus Christ and his Christlike example to all of us. At times, I have been caught up in the back and forth bashing, and for that, I have tried to repent and be more like the Savior. I sincerely apologize to those of you I have offended. Sometimes we get caught up in ourselves to the point of belittling others.
It FR ever became a place where the spirit of the Lord was made manifest instead of the spirit of contention, I might find it a more worthwhile endeavor, but since my time is not my own right now, and since FR has become not so free, where those who don’t support Fred 100 percent and post things against him are banned or suspended nearly at the drop of the hat, I must temporarily depart.
If Mitt wins Iowa or New Hampshire, perhaps I will pop in in January, to watch FR melt down, unless of course I have been banned for this post.
I wish you all very well. Thanks for your friendships or at least acquaintances.
For those who's lifes' passion it is to belittle my faith, I leave you with this from Acts 5:
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Till we meet again...
Sevenbak
Yeah I read that quote recently, quite clever. The full quote was:
LDS philosopher Orson Whitney: Many years ago there came to Utah a learned doctor of divinity, a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I became well acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy, and was never weary of displaying his vast erudition. One day he said to me:
"You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. If we are wrong, they are wrong with us, for they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we really have, as we claim, the apostolic succession from St. Peter, there was no need for Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the Gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the Gospel in latter days."
Of course I find it hard to believe that Jesus would come to the Earth only to condemn it to "centuries of darkness."
As a former mormon, I have insight into the actual effects of the mormon culture on those in it, and those outside it.
As to this, "since FR has become not so free, where those who don’t support Fred 100 percent and post things against him are banned or suspended nearly at the drop of the hat, I must temporarily depart."
Your memory is faulty if you can't remember the posters banned because they disputed the mormon propaganda posted on these threads, and when baited into flame wars, were the ones who were booted.
We have seen several new recruits to your cause, and of course some of your troops who periodically take a nap will be back again.
It(f) FR ever became a place where the spirit of the Lord was made manifest instead of the spirit of contention, I might find it a more worthwhile endeavor
FR is not a religious site. There are hundreds of mormon apologetic sites where you will not be challenged. If you haven't noticed, just about EVERY point of view is challenged here at one time or another.
I will compliment you on being one of the more reasoned apologists.
We will welcome you back at any time. GF
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