5 Kinds of Christians - Understanding the disparity of those who call themselves Christian

Christianity Today ^ | Helen Lee

[Between the Lines]

Jennifer Hua identifies herself as a Christian. A 35-year-old former attorney studying Christian counseling at the Wheaton College Graduate School (Illinois), she has gone to church all her life and is a lay leader in her suburban Chicago congregation. She furthers her spiritual development by daily Bible reading, prayer, listening to and singing worship songs, and interacting with other Christians. And every few months, she carves out time for a silent retreat. "I do all of these things because I know from past experience I need to recalibrate my mind and my heart to be in tune with God," she says.

James Smith also identifies himself as a Christian. He attended church as a child, but his attendance was minimal as a young adult. He believes in God, occasionally attends Redeemer Presbyterian in Manhattan when his time-consuming job in the finance district allows, but he does not often participate in other activities to further his spiritual life. He has a Bible but rarely opens it; what leisure time he has he spends with friends, most of whom are of different faiths, and he does not necessarily believe that his God is any different from the one his Muslim friend worships.

"I don't think that God would be a God who would shut others out of heaven because they don't use the word 'Christian' to describe themselves," he says.

The United States is described in mainstream media as largely Christian (between 70 and 80 percent, depending on the study, identify themselves as "Christian"), and compared to the rest of the world, this is certainly the case. However, not all within this vast group of Christians are alike.

[Mr. Lucky]

Yes, well I’m a (Missouri Synod) Lutheran and the same thought struck me.

[Claud]

Right. Most of Christianity is liturgical....so it’s a funny tack to take.

[Mr. Lucky]

I suspect the author’s position would be that touchy-feely new age Christianity trumps Christianity mired in the gospels and ancient Creeds.

[gpk9]

"... can we use another word - imitate."

I don't see "imitate me" in Rev 14.12. That and the rest of the Bible says "obey", "keep my commandments", or something to that effect.

You'd have to ask God about that.

[gpk9]

"...when we attempt to justify ourselves with them?"

Who said anything about justifiying ourselves with works? Not me.

If your children do what you say, are they trying to justify themselves, or are they just being obedient children?

God doesn't view obedience as one trying to justify themselves. He simply views it as obedience... and rewards it.

People who just don't want to obey God come up with these wierd ideas that simple obedience is some form of arrogance.

Do you view your kids as arrogant when they simply do what you say?

"Again, all of us have a constant attitude of rebellion."

Speak for yourself.

Think and do whatever floats your boat. I really don't care. It's not my law. It's not my Bible.

If you want to believe B when it clearly says A, go right ahead.

... because it's not my eternal life on the line. It's yours.

"God will not tolerate any level of rebellion or sin in His presence."

Then by your own words you declare you will not be there.

... and God will certainly honor your decision.

[gpk9]

“...I’m sure that’s what the original author intended.”

Author? Singular?

The Bible is a collection of writings done by multiple people in multiple languages over multiple centuries.

Despite that diversity of authors, languages, and time, those writings all say pretty much the same thing: Obey God.

That consistent message from all those diverse writings is the strongest proof that God inspired all of them.

I’ll tell you what I told armydoc. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care.

That’s the beauty of having the truth. The truth really does set one free. I’m not enslaved by all those false ideas about having to get people saved and similar nonsense.

God simply tells us to spread the truth. That’s the limit of our responsibility. He doesn’t hold us responsible for what other people do or don’t do with it.

At one time I would have debated you on the imitating vs obeying argument. Since then I have realized that is not my job. My job is to convey, not to convince.

What you believe is up to you. It’s your spiritual tail at risk, not mine.

“Work out your own salvation...” [Phl 2:12]

[armydoc]

Who said anything about justifiying ourselves with works? Not me.

You did when you stated "Eternal life itself depends on obedience."

If your children do what you say, are they trying to justify themselves, or are they just being obedient children? God doesn't view obedience as one trying to justify themselves. He simply views it as obedience... and rewards it. People who just don't want to obey God come up with these wierd ideas that simple obedience is some form of arrogance. Do you view your kids as arrogant when they simply do what you say?

Perhaps you have gotten the idea that I believe obedience is not important. That could not be further from the truth. Obedience is very important. I agree, we gain great benefits here on earth and in Heaven for obedience. What it cannot do, however, is save us.

"God will not tolerate any level of rebellion or sin in His presence." Then by your own words you declare you will not be there.

I certainly don't deserve to be there. I only deserve eternal punishment. I am a wretched sinner. Born an enemy of God. For reasons I will never completely understand, God saw fit to bring me back to Him by regenerating me, giving me faith, and sacrificing His Son to forgive all of my sins, past and future. It's all Him. I have nothing to boast about. My obedience and works will never add anything to what He has done. Yes, I strive to be obedient because I love Him. To suggest that "eternal life itself depends on obedience", however, makes a mockery of His sacrifice.

[curiosity]

Yes, that is a bit odd that the author puts "liturgical" in a different category than "active."

I think you're right that it reflects evangelicals' failure to recognize the importance of liturgical action.

Though bigotry is a bit strong a term to use for it. More likely, the author simply had little exposure to liturgy, and hence doesn't grasp its importance and spiritual value. I don't think it's fair to read anything sinister into it.

[gpk9]

"What it [obedience] cannot do, however, is save us."

Guess what. You just said the entire Bible is wrong.

You just said God is wrong, Christ is wrong, all the Old Testament writers are wrong, Matthew is wrong, Mark is wrong, Luke is wrong, John is wrong, Paul is wrong, James is wrong, and Peter is wrong. (Did I leave someone out?)

ALL of them say obedience is THE requirement for salvation.

... and blessings, and protection, and all the rest.

Let's see. Who should I believe? Them... or you.

You're way outnumberd. I'll stick with them.

[gpk9]

"To suggest that "eternal life itself depends on obedience", however, makes a mockery of His sacrifice."

Is this just your wimpy limp-wristed lame laughable faint-hearted fairytale fantasy Christian teaching talking, or can you back it up with some scripture?

I'm all ears.

[newberger]

I don't think it's fair to read anything sinister into it.

I agree. You'll notice that I called it "unintentional".

They probably assume (wrongly) that we are just "going through the motions."

It's not sinister, its unfortunate.

[gpk9]

You know where I got the "wimpy limp-wristed faint-hearted" adjectives I used?

This:

"I certainly don't deserve to be there. I only deserve eternal punishment. I am a wretched sinner. Born an enemy of God. For reasons I will never completely understand, God saw fit to bring me back to Him by regenerating me, giving me faith, and sacrificing His Son to forgive all of my sins, past and future. It's all Him. I have nothing to boast about. My obedience and works will never add anything to what He has done. Yes, I strive to be obedient because I love Him."

This is the SICKEST SORRIEST thing I've ever read! It makes me wana THROW UP!

This is not the attitude of a Godly person!

This is not the attitude of an OVERCOMER!

This is the attitude of a WEAK FRIGHTENED TIMID COWARD!

Christ says "I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THOSE WHO SHRINK BACK!"

GOD says "THE FEARFUL SHALL N-O-T ENTER THE KINGDOM!"

IF THIS KIND OF WEAK SPINELESS ATTITUDE is Christianity, then NO WONDER Christians get no respect.

NO WONDER God has no pleasure in Christians.

NO WONDER Christ will spew these lukewarm Christians out of his mouth!

NO WONDER Satan has a freikin FIELD DAY with Christians!

You're not even a challenge to Satan! You don't even put up a fight! You're defeated before the game even starts!

You might as well just CONCEDE DEFEAT, PACK UP, AND GO HOME!

... BEFORE SATAN RIPS YOU APART and SCATTERS YOUR BLOODY REMAINS ALL OVER THE PLAYING FIELD!

I have a NEWS FLASH for you! CHRIST IS NOT GOING TO FIGHT YOUR BATTLES! CHRIST IS NOT GOING TO EARN SALVATION FOR YOU.

Christ tells YOU to fight those battles!

Christ tells YOU to EARN YOUR OWN SALVATION!

Christ tells YOU to be STRONG, have COURAGE, be STEADFAST, FAINT NOT, OVERCOME SATAN, OVERCOME YOUR OWN NATURE, and GROW IN THE GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST!

Christ tells YOU to STAND YOUR GROUND AGAINST EVIL, MOVE FORWARD, NOT SHRINK BACK, and GO ON TO PERFECTION IN GOD'S WAY!

Christ tells YOU to "TAKE THE KINGDOM BY FORCE!"

That means COURAGE, BRAVERY, STRENGTH, AND BOLDNESS!

Christ tells YOU to TAKE UP THE SWORD OF GOD'S WORD and DEFEAT SATAN WITH IT!

BUT THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! YOU DON'T HAVE A SWORD! YOU DON'T KNOW GOD'S WORD!

You go up against Satan with NOTHING! You're DEFENSELESS, and GET YOUR BRAINS BEAT OUT!

You leave the field not victorious, but VANQUISHED!

You leave the field not brave and bold, but BRUISED AND BLOODY!

NO WONDER GOD HAS NO PLEASURE IN YOU!

GOD DOESN'T LIKE LOOSERS!

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

[MHGinTN]

What's all this about limp wrists? Stop this gayistry. Just stop it!

[armydoc]

CHRIST IS NOT GOING TO EARN SALVATION FOR YOU

I think that pretty much cuts to the heart of the matter. Scripture is plain that He did earn my salvation, because I never could. If you think you're earning yours, you are sadly mistaken. I think you may be struggling with this, based on all the vitriol you displayed in the last post. Just let it go. As Christ said, "it is finished".