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Who said anything about justifiying ourselves with works? Not me.

You did when you stated "Eternal life itself depends on obedience."

If your children do what you say, are they trying to justify themselves, or are they just being obedient children? God doesn't view obedience as one trying to justify themselves. He simply views it as obedience... and rewards it. People who just don't want to obey God come up with these wierd ideas that simple obedience is some form of arrogance. Do you view your kids as arrogant when they simply do what you say?

Perhaps you have gotten the idea that I believe obedience is not important. That could not be further from the truth. Obedience is very important. I agree, we gain great benefits here on earth and in Heaven for obedience. What it cannot do, however, is save us.

"God will not tolerate any level of rebellion or sin in His presence." Then by your own words you declare you will not be there.

I certainly don't deserve to be there. I only deserve eternal punishment. I am a wretched sinner. Born an enemy of God. For reasons I will never completely understand, God saw fit to bring me back to Him by regenerating me, giving me faith, and sacrificing His Son to forgive all of my sins, past and future. It's all Him. I have nothing to boast about. My obedience and works will never add anything to what He has done. Yes, I strive to be obedient because I love Him. To suggest that "eternal life itself depends on obedience", however, makes a mockery of His sacrifice.

"What it [obedience] cannot do, however, is save us."

Guess what. You just said the entire Bible is wrong.

You just said God is wrong, Christ is wrong, all the Old Testament writers are wrong, Matthew is wrong, Mark is wrong, Luke is wrong, John is wrong, Paul is wrong, James is wrong, and Peter is wrong. (Did I leave someone out?)

ALL of them say obedience is THE requirement for salvation.

... and blessings, and protection, and all the rest.

Let's see. Who should I believe? Them... or you.

You're way outnumberd. I'll stick with them.

You know where I got the "wimpy limp-wristed faint-hearted" adjectives I used?

This:

"I certainly don't deserve to be there. I only deserve eternal punishment. I am a wretched sinner. Born an enemy of God. For reasons I will never completely understand, God saw fit to bring me back to Him by regenerating me, giving me faith, and sacrificing His Son to forgive all of my sins, past and future. It's all Him. I have nothing to boast about. My obedience and works will never add anything to what He has done. Yes, I strive to be obedient because I love Him."

This is the SICKEST SORRIEST thing I've ever read! It makes me wana THROW UP!

This is not the attitude of a Godly person!

This is not the attitude of an OVERCOMER!

This is the attitude of a WEAK FRIGHTENED TIMID COWARD!

Christ says "I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THOSE WHO SHRINK BACK!"

GOD says "THE FEARFUL SHALL N-O-T ENTER THE KINGDOM!"

IF THIS KIND OF WEAK SPINELESS ATTITUDE is Christianity, then NO WONDER Christians get no respect.

NO WONDER God has no pleasure in Christians.

NO WONDER Christ will spew these lukewarm Christians out of his mouth!

NO WONDER Satan has a freikin FIELD DAY with Christians!

You're not even a challenge to Satan! You don't even put up a fight! You're defeated before the game even starts!

You might as well just CONCEDE DEFEAT, PACK UP, AND GO HOME!

... BEFORE SATAN RIPS YOU APART and SCATTERS YOUR BLOODY REMAINS ALL OVER THE PLAYING FIELD!

I have a NEWS FLASH for you! CHRIST IS NOT GOING TO FIGHT YOUR BATTLES! CHRIST IS NOT GOING TO EARN SALVATION FOR YOU.

Christ tells YOU to fight those battles!

Christ tells YOU to EARN YOUR OWN SALVATION!

Christ tells YOU to be STRONG, have COURAGE, be STEADFAST, FAINT NOT, OVERCOME SATAN, OVERCOME YOUR OWN NATURE, and GROW IN THE GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST!

Christ tells YOU to STAND YOUR GROUND AGAINST EVIL, MOVE FORWARD, NOT SHRINK BACK, and GO ON TO PERFECTION IN GOD'S WAY!

Christ tells YOU to "TAKE THE KINGDOM BY FORCE!"

That means COURAGE, BRAVERY, STRENGTH, AND BOLDNESS!

Christ tells YOU to TAKE UP THE SWORD OF GOD'S WORD and DEFEAT SATAN WITH IT!

BUT THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! YOU DON'T HAVE A SWORD! YOU DON'T KNOW GOD'S WORD!

You go up against Satan with NOTHING! You're DEFENSELESS, and GET YOUR BRAINS BEAT OUT!

You leave the field not victorious, but VANQUISHED!

You leave the field not brave and bold, but BRUISED AND BLOODY!

NO WONDER GOD HAS NO PLEASURE IN YOU!

GOD DOESN'T LIKE LOOSERS!