Posted on 11/09/2007 9:25:22 PM PST by restornu
No different than a preacher today eulogizing an evil dead person into heaven. It makes the family feel good but does absolutely nothing for the dead.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
You poor souls cannot see the difference in 'they' and we, so how could we expect you to comprehend the Gospel of Christ when you have to filter everything through the fabrications of a lying adulterous false prophet who sought to rewrite the King James Bible and call it a 'translation', in which he fabricates prophecy of his 'coming in these latter days.'
No wonder you teach that ALL those who have professed Christ as Savior must have a Mormon baptism to 'complete their justification' so you will do it for them by proxy no matter how long ago they died (well, back to the death of the last Apostle of course).
Numerous explanations have been offered for this verse ranging from the inane to the sophisticated. Mormonism, in particular, has claimed that this verse supports their view of baptism for the dead. In their practice, individuals go to their local Mormon temple, dress appropriately for a baptism, representatively adopt the name of a person who has died, and then the Mormon is baptized in water for that deceased person. This way, the dead person has fulfilled the requirements of salvation in the afterworld and can enjoy further spiritual benefits in the spiritual realm.
But, the Mormons are incorrect. They have usurped this verse and taken it out of context. So, let's examine 1 Cor. 15 briefly so we can see what Paul is talking about when he mentions baptism for the dead.
In the preceeding verses, the fact of Christ's resurrection is detailed by Paul. Beginning in verse
20 and going through verse 23, Paul speaks about the order of the resurrection. Christ is the first one raised -- in a glorified body -- and then who are His at His return. Next, verses 24 - 29 mention Christ's reign and the abolition of death. This is when this controversial verse occurs: "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mention by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.
2 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, otherwise, why would they baptize for the dead?
However, some are not convinced by this argument and state that the word "they" is not in the Greek and, therefore, Paul is not speaking about the pagans.. Let's take a look.
Literally, the verse is translated as "Since what will do the being immersed on behalf of the dead if wholly dead not are raised why also are they immersed on behalf of them."
The issue here is the word, "baptizontai" -- "they are baptized." It is the present, passive, indicative, 3rd person, plural. In other words, it is THEY ARE BEING BAPTIZED or, THEY ARE BAPTIZED.
I -- first person singular
you (singular) -- second person singular
he/she/it -- third person singular
we -- first person plural
you (plural) -- second person plural
they -- third person plural
It is the latter form, the third person plural (they) which the verb "baptizo" is in. Therefore, the best translation is "THEY are baptized."
____________
1. The KJV renders it as, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
The NKJV, "Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?"
The NASB, "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"
2. Bible Knowledge Commentary on 1 Cor. 15:29. Dallas Seminary Faculty.
Even a non LDS works you just can’t resist!
Heresy is something you apparently cannot recognize because it is rife in Mormonism. And you want me to ignore it! Nice try, resty.
Oh every thing is a heresy to you look out someday you might cut off you hand for fear of it being a heresy...
Joesph Smith seems to have put virtually every possible fragment of Christian belief into his stew.
But we are bound by the law of charity to pray that all be saved.
This is by a non LDS Jeffrey A. Trumbower who is at St. Michael’s College, Colchester, VT.
He did the scholarly work on this topic. He combed every source in history he could find on Posthumous Salvation of Non-Christians in Early Christianity.
Mormonism has a fleet of scholars searching daily to find material they can use to support the heresies in Mormonism. Doesn’t make the heresies any more truthful, just vehemently defended.
Smith was raised in a hotbed of Protestant fundamentalism, and he incorporated much of it in his religion. If the good professor were to research the sects that rose during the Reformation, and those that immediately preceded it, I dare say he would find many if not most of Smith’s teachings.
“It’s appointed man once to die, and after that the judgment Heb 9:27”
Let’s see now. Does it say judgment comes immediately after death? No. Does it say there is nothing that takes place between death and judgment? No. It only give the sequence of two events, death comes before judgment. We Mormons agree with that and the possibility of repentance between death and judgment is discussed in the Bible too.
“The verse you referenced, v.29, has nothing to do with baptism of dead people.”
Right it has to do with baptism FOR dead people. Proxy baptism, not dunking corpses.
Greek philosophy held that the material world was inherently corrupt, and so the saints in Corrith had trouble accepting the idea of a physical resurrection. In the chapter Paul is beating them over the head with the literalness of a physical resurrection, and in doing so he points to the practice of baptism for the dead indicating that such a practice would be inconsistent with the idea that there would not be a physical resurrection.
It only makes sense to cite it that way if it is a valid Christian practice. If it was a heathen practice his argument would be logically invalid, and you can bet the Greek saints would spot that. For the saints in Corrinth to be rejecting the resurection indicates they have strayed fairly far. The word ‘they’ would refer to other saints who the Corinthian saints knew had not abandoned the practice in the false idea that there would be no resurection.
“And I stand by Heb 9:27”
Pick and choose. Then find out if you made the right choice, just like the rest of us...
When you don’t acknowledge the meaning of pronouns, this is what you get: “It only makes sense to cite it that way if it is a valid Christian practice.” You are gravely mistaken, Mormonism Apologist. Learn the use of ‘we’ and ‘they’ and you might learn where you are so very wrong.
Yes, to pray for all who have not yet died. That’s why we all need to be ready to meet our Maker; there’s no time after death. Only the believing thief was promised a place in Paradise with Jesus.
Yes, there is no time after death, except God’s time, and HE is the Alpha and the Omega. I do not believe a person can do anything after his death to merit heaven. But we can and ought to petition God to be merciful.
Well said!
The resurrection of the dead is not null and void. Read the readings from tomorrow’s liturgy. The first reading and the Gospel talk about the Resurrection of the dead.
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