Rescue for the Dead: The Posthumous Salvation of Non-Christians in Early Christianity

Oxford University Press, USA Oxford Studies in Historical Theology ^ | August 31, 2001 | Jeffrey A. Trumbower

[restornu]

Abstract: This book investigates a variety of traditions in early Christianity in which various Christians sought to secure salvation after death for non-Christians. Sometimes the dead would appear in dreams to request prayer for the dead; sometimes soon-to-be martyrs were thought to have special powers to rescue even the non-Christian dead. Some Christians practiced a vicarious baptism for the dead. Others imagined Christ offering salvation to the dead during the harrowing of hell (his descent to the realm of the dead). Some Christians went so far as to posit an ultimate universal salvation for everyone who had ever lived. The book culminates with a study of Augustine, who strove to limit these practices and beliefs to prayer for the Christian dead with light sins only. In this process, western notions of purgatory began to develop as a place where baptized Christians could be purified for eternal life with God

[restornu]

Non LDS Author

CTR

[Old Mountain man]

Are the mainstream attack dogs asleep? They haven’t attacked this as heresy and accused the author of being LDS yet?

Oh my!

I think I will give this book a read.

[doc1019]

It’s appointed man once to die, and after that the judgment Heb 9:27

[doc1019]

Catholics with their purgatory and limbo, Mormons with their “pray me out of hell” scenarios become null an void via Heb 9:27.

[sevenbak]

Mormons don’t believe one can be “prayed out of hell”

The LDS beliefs that are similar to this book have to do with the saving ordinance of baptism for the dead, an ordinance done vicariously here on earth, and is either accepted or rejected by the subject who's work is done in the next life. It’s referenced briefly in Corinthians as well.

1 Corinthians 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

[Domandred]

tagged for later

[doc1019]

And I stand by Heb 9:27

[restornu]

Catholics with their purgatory and limbo, Mormons with their “pray me out of hell” scenarios become null an void via Heb 9:27.

****

Jesus paid the price for those preceding as well as those not yet born!

1 Peter 3

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

and in verse Heb 28 it is said and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 9

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

[sevenbak]

I would stand by the Heb. reference as well, I believe it wholeheartedly. We will be judged according to our works in this life after we die. However, I don’t believe that reference speaks specifically to the all encompassing love God has for all his children. How many billions have died never having heard of Jesus Christ. And yet, God has commanded all to be baptized in his name. The two don’t mesh unless the saving ordinances for the dead as spoken in Corinthians are accounted for.

[doc1019]

And Jesus, God of the Universe, can’t handle these things? I trust Him to handle things in his way … doesn’t nullify Heb 9:27.

[sevenbak]

Nothing nullifies it, the bible is taken at it’s whole and all things are fulfilled. The two references are not mutually exclusive. I agree strongly in your Hebrews reference. John the Revelator says the same thing.

Thanks.

[sevenbak]

I would add that when Chirst comes again, He will reign on the earth for a thousand years, the millennium, and all the work for mankind will happen.... but it’s started now. There is much to be done.

Cheers.

[restornu]

This was an excellent talk on the subject of Baptism for the Dead

[sevenbak]

I haven’t seen that one, I’ll check it out. Thanks.

[TheDon]

Thanks for the post! I think I will buy a copy. Quite fascinating!

[Luke Skyfreeper]

Ah, I love theological arguments. They’re so... refreshing. Kind of like a slap in the face with a cold, dead bass, early in the morning. :-)

[restornu]

Here is the second and final part of Post #14

[skr]

1 Corinthians 15:

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The verse you referenced, v.29, has nothing to do with baptism of dead people. It is saying the Jesus is resurrected and that those who are baptized are not baptized because of a dead man, but because of the very much alive Son of God. There are some stand alone verses in the Bible, but this is not one of them. Throwing out context does nothing but confuse and deceive, even when it's not intentional.

Those who awaited the Messiah but died before He came cannot be baptized by anything we do; God has taken care of them, as He knows who would've believed and who wouldn't have. The dead cannot be prayed into or out of Heaven or Hell.

[Alex Murphy]

Ah, I love theological arguments. They’re so... refreshing. Kind of like a slap in the face with a cold, dead bass, early in the morning. :-)

There's no bass so cold, so dead that somewhere, someone won't get baptized for it for some reason.