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I Will Be Where Peter Is
This Rock ^ | William Reichert

Posted on 11/06/2007 10:23:55 AM PST by Titanites

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1 posted on 11/06/2007 10:24:01 AM PST by Titanites
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To: Titanites
Peter is given the keys of the Kingdom. When the other disciples are given the power to bind and loose (in Matthew 18:18), they are not likewise promised the keys; only Peter is entrusted with these.

Let's look at Matthew 16:13-20:

When Jesus talks about "this rock" he is not referring to Peter, but instead Peter's confession of faith in verse 16. Jesus isn't jumping from one subject (that He is the Christ) to another (primacy of Peter). It is a continuation of the same subject - who do people believe that Christ is.

And if you look at the following verse 20 you can see that Jesus still has not changed subject because he is commanding them not to reveal that He is the Christ.

Jesus thus does not declare the primacy of Peter, but rather declares that his church will be built upon the foundation of the revelation of and confession of faith of Jesus as the Christ. The "rock" is our faith in Christ.

2 posted on 11/06/2007 10:40:55 AM PST by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
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To: Titanites
Bump! For the reasons stated here, BUMP!
3 posted on 11/06/2007 11:06:23 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Titanites; eaglesnest1; cindy-true-supporter

It is fitting that this was written by a lawyer. He sets forth all the evidences and then presents a judgement. Wonderfully done. Readers may decide if they subscribe to his analysis and conclusion. As for me, I found it quite compelling, since I have struggled with many of the questions he poses ever since realizing the degree of corruption present in the Protestant apparatus in the U.S. If both the Catholic and Protestant establishments have been corrupted at one time or another by political power, what does that say? Reichert is able to separate the issues of sin and error, and make a distinction between them. It’s illuminatiing, to put it mildly.


4 posted on 11/06/2007 11:08:13 AM PST by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: FourtySeven
Yes, I agree with the spirit of your post at the link; sometimes these experiments and try-ons of various faith traditions are part of the journey to finding one's ultimate faith.

My childhood was much as he described: the family expected church attendance, but no one discussed the meaning of it. It's a hard awakening to come to the conclusion that one's rock-ribbed, multi-generational family membership in a given church (in our case, Methodist) was just going through the motions.

I can say, however, that one tradition of Wesleyanism that I have taken with me is the ability to question assumptions until you arrive at the peace that passes understanding about a given topic. For me, understanding is a prelude to peace, and once I have understood, peace arrives; even mindful as I am "not to lean unto my own understanding." Perhaps that passage means to say, "the peace that does not require understanding", but it didn't, so I'm still wondering about that. This is why I often say, "my apostle is Thomas." I really enjoyed this article.

5 posted on 11/06/2007 11:19:59 AM PST by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Between the Lines
When He says, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven," is He speaking to Peter's confession, or to Peter?
6 posted on 11/06/2007 11:25:27 AM PST by Campion
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To: Between the Lines

Read Isaiah 22


7 posted on 11/06/2007 11:31:39 AM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: Between the Lines
And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church

See the footnotes from BibleGateway.com, where you got the quotations:

    Footnotes:

    c. Matthew 16:18 Peter means rock.


8 posted on 11/06/2007 11:38:09 AM PST by Titanites
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To: Salvation; NYer

Ping


9 posted on 11/06/2007 11:40:44 AM PST by Titanites
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To: Albion Wilde

My childhood....

I couldn’t have written it better.


10 posted on 11/06/2007 11:45:39 AM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: Titanites
And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church

See the footnotes from BibleGateway.com, where you got the quotations:

Footnotes:

c. Matthew 16:18 Peter means rock.

1Corithians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

11 posted on 11/06/2007 12:01:42 PM PST by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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To: WileyPink
1Corithians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I do believe God can use what he chooses for a foundation.

    Ephesians 2:19-22 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner[stone,] in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

12 posted on 11/06/2007 12:11:04 PM PST by Titanites
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To: Campion

I am just curious. What do you believe are the “keys of the kingdom”?


13 posted on 11/06/2007 12:46:06 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: Titanites
But the confusion lies in assuming that saving faith is solely a state of mind.

??? Yes, I would call that confusion alright! It is trying to put something that is of the spirit into an intellectual construct. I would call it a state of the heart, not of the mind.

I had come a long way in understanding, or trying to understand, justification and salvation from a Catholic perspective and my own uneasiness with the lack of passion for Christian unity among my Evangelical brothers.

There was a time when unity was a double edged sword. When you have the power to kill or torture those who believe differently than you, you can get a lot of people to confess whatever you tell them they must confess.

The Reformers began down that same error ridden road, but were quickly undone by their own principles. Forced unity is evil, which is why I have a lot more uneasiness with unity than I do with whatever number of divisions result from division that's a product of freedom of conscience.

It must be shown that the Church defected at some time, or over some period of time, from the original deposit of the faith.

Show me Gospel support for torturing and/or killing heretics or even signing off on the state doing it to maintain domestic tranquility. The Church did defect from the original deposit of the faith & I'm not sure She would have rediscovered Her true purpose if She hadn't had it forced on Her.

Why is it that Bible-reading Christians did not "reform" the early Church? If these early Christians could not comprehend the true gospel from reading the Bible in their own language at a time so close to the apostolic era, how is it that Protestants were suddenly able to do so some fifteen centuries later in translation and in a culture remote in time and space from the apostolic age?

People had ready access to Bibles in the early Church? what happened to the argument that Bibles weren't assembled until centuries later & then they were rare, expensive & most people couldn't read anyway?

14 posted on 11/06/2007 12:54:54 PM PST by GoLightly
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To: jkl1122

See Isaiah 22:22. It’s a symbol of authority, specifically the authority of a royal steward under the headship of a Davidic king.


15 posted on 11/06/2007 1:04:37 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion

So you believe that Isaiah 22:22 is referring to Peter, and not Christ?


16 posted on 11/06/2007 1:10:28 PM PST by jkl1122
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: jkl1122
Isaiah 22:22 is referring to Eliakim, and is appointing him to the position of royal steward (after throwing out the wicked Shebna, his predecessor).

The position of royal steward is the type or foreshadowing of Peter, not of Christ. (cf Luke 12:41ff) The position of king (the steward's boss) is the type of Christ.

18 posted on 11/06/2007 1:24:13 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion

Isaiah 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Who is being referred to in Revelation 3:7? Would it not be the same person who was referred to in Isaiah 22:22?


19 posted on 11/06/2007 1:34:29 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
Who is being referred to in Revelation 3:7? Would it not be the same person who was referred to in Isaiah 22:22?

Is 22:22 is referring to Eliakim. Read from verse 20, or even better, from verse 15.

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth

There is no contradiction here, but reinforcement. The keys are the symbol of dynastic power and authority in the Davidic monarchy. They belong to the king, and their power and authority is given by the king to one whom the king designates to act in his behalf.

20 posted on 11/06/2007 1:38:55 PM PST by Campion
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