Posted on 10/28/2007 5:11:19 PM PDT by pinochet
I am a Catholic who is trying to understand Protestant history and teachings, in order to better understand the history of Christianity. There is one issue that I do not understand.
According to Protestant teachings, if a person becomes saved, are his future sins forgiven? Can a person lose his salvation? If not, can assurance of salvation become a license to sin?
If Ted Haggard had gone to be with the Lord early last year, while in the process of getting a "massage" from his male "friend", would he have gone straight to heaven?
I am a Protestant, and my understanding is that God saves me....I do not save myself.
That means that God, in an act of sheer grace -- unmerited faor -- saves me from eternal separation from him. There is nothing -- nothing -- I can do to say that I am good enough to enter heaven.
I have no desire to denigrate the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but, as I understand those teachings, there is an emphasis on the human activity necessary in order to achieve salvation.
For instance, I think Catholic teaching is that one must partake of the sacraments of the church (confession and communion, for instance) in order to be saved. It is human activity that count for something.
My Protestant understanding says that none of that really counts. What counts is what God has done, and my belief that God sent His Son to the world to die for my sins -- all of the actiity necessary for my salvation was God's, not mine.
And, since I have accepted God's gift of salvation, God's own Holy Spirit is at work in my heart, transforming me -- sanctifying me. It is a process that changes my heart from one that eagerly looks forward to sin to a heart that shuns sin.
I confess that this is a somewhat oversimlified view, but I hope it helps.
Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).
The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5). “Not of works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is none righteous, no not one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).
Information taken from gotquestions.org.
The cult of extreme grace by the Blood of Jesus? Include me in then.
It’s really about the difference between “spirit” and “flesh”.
God is a spirit. Therefore, man is a spirit - because man was created in God’s image.
To be saved means to have a new spirit by accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Redemption gives us a clean spirit - clean of all sinfulness. It’s up to us to work out our salvation so that our new spirit shows up in our flesh. Most people do not make a dramatic about face after they are saved. It takes reading and studying and hearing the Word preached.
Remember, man is a 3-part person. Our spirit - the real person; our soul - which consists of our mind, will and emotions; and our flesh - which is the earth suit we live in while we are on the earth.
The key to living a Christian life is TRAINING your soul and your flesh to agree with and follow your renewed spirit. Fleshly habits and desires take time to train to do what God wants for your life, versus what you think you want and need.
Once a person is “saved” they are no longer a “sinner”. Although they may do things which are considered sinful or against God. In their renewed state of grace they can REPENT and be forgiven of any new sins.
Study the letters Paul wrote to the churches (starting with the 4th Gospel - John, and continuing with Romans, Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Thessalonians) - therein Paul explains what salvation has really bought and the very high price Jesus paid to restore our relationship with God and to set us free from sin and death. After that, I would study the Book of Hebrews.
I would recommend reading The Amplified Bible version. I have been reading it for years and it is the most literal Greek translation of the original scriptures. The Greek language is known to be very, very flowery - or expressive. It does truly “amplify” the meaning of God’s word.
God told us, “I’ll never leave you or forsake you”. However, starting at Hebrews 13:5 (Amp) - you see how the Greek language expands that statement from God and makes it much, much more powerful.
“But if you are in a state of grace, then your huamn will becomes merged with divine Logos, and you see the desires of the body as they really are, weaknesses for which you have no need.”
You wouldn’t happen to know where I could find that in the Bible do ya?
who amongst us here, is without sin?
:) Just as in there are as many worlds as their are people. Though humans innately share a sin nature, if your name is written in the Book of Life, you will be eventually saved. The Holy Spirit will then reside in you.
Kevmo said it best in post #5.
Sin (gay) Pride Parades around the country.
Sin on parade my friend, and it is pride in their sin.
The ‘thorn in his side’? :*(
Okay, I’m beginning to get the idea that these sin parades are all over the place!
One big difference, of course, is that Moslems are many times advised that it's OK to kill somebody ~ and for Catholics and Protestants, that answer is simply not acceptable.
Protestant theology (for the most part) is less legalistic than the competition ~ and I think that's as simple an answer as I can come up with.
>>>>>Now Catholics (being a former one for 25 years) have a problem with (many) but two big things: one, they don’t know for certain they are going to go to heaven; and two, they believe that if you don’t do good works plus have faith in Christ, you will not go to heaven. They look at us protestants and say, “All you have to do is believe? What’s so hard about that?”<<<<<
The main concern that Catholics have, is that behavioral standards may be lowered, and you may end up with church leaders like the Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.
After all, if Robinson is “saved”, then he is assured of heaven, irrespective of his personal behavior. Separating behavior from salvation has always been a concern for Catholics.
Should you be sinless at the time of your death to go to heaven?"
Yes, you would go to heaven. A saved Christian who sins, does not lose his salvation. However, he will most likely incur chastisement. Plus sin tends to have it's own intrinsic rewards, that are less than desirable. In addition, a Christian who sins, is not going to be happy. In fact, a Christian living a life of sin is one of the most miserable creatures ever.
When Jesus died, he paid the price for all sins, past present and future. In the final analysis, there is only one sin that remains, failure to accept God's plan of salvation. That is the sin that will result in the second death. If you have accepted Jesus, you are in the final analysis ...sinless.
The person who has repented and accepted Jesus as savior has passed from death to life. He has "eternal" life. It's not eternal if you can lose it. Scripture says that Jesus will not drive him away, and that he will not leave.
Can be it treated as a license to sin? Sure, but when you accepted Jesus as savior, you've been bought with a price. God has a license to chastise and will chastise those whom He loves.
What's more, you can't mentally accept that Jesus is God's plan of salvation while planning to continue to sin. Because that's not repentance. So at least at one point in time, when you accepted Jesus, you had to have a contrite heart that acknowledged your sinful condition and your need of a savior and a willingness to try to turn from sin.
That's why in John 3, it says that "He who believes..hath eternal life. And he who does not believe, is condemned already."
Do an electronic search of the Bible for the words "once for all", "all time" and "perfected" and "perfected forever", "no condemnation". You'll find a lot of scripture that will help shed light on this.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Hebrews 10:10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Not trying to start a fight here but while claiming the authority of the church, there are current and past Catholic traditions which do not seem to agree with the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
This is not the place to argue those traditions but keep in mind that nothing is as clear cut as it looks from one vantage point. After all, are you sure that the Authority of the Church did not head east with the Popes of the Orthodox Church. Once again, not the place to argue, just things are not that simple.
They're really, really, really different and are rejected by all real Catholics and Protestants (and Orthodox).
“Nowhere in the Bible is there anything remotely resembling “purgatory”.”
But it OBVIOUSLY exists, because the all powerful Catholic Church made it up.
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