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To: Secret Agent Man

>>>>>Now Catholics (being a former one for 25 years) have a problem with (many) but two big things: one, they don’t know for certain they are going to go to heaven; and two, they believe that if you don’t do good works plus have faith in Christ, you will not go to heaven. They look at us protestants and say, “All you have to do is believe? What’s so hard about that?”<<<<<

The main concern that Catholics have, is that behavioral standards may be lowered, and you may end up with church leaders like the Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

After all, if Robinson is “saved”, then he is assured of heaven, irrespective of his personal behavior. Separating behavior from salvation has always been a concern for Catholics.


75 posted on 10/28/2007 5:54:57 PM PDT by pinochet
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To: pinochet
The main concern that Catholics have, is that behavioral standards may be lowered, and you may end up with church leaders like the Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

Or Pope Alexander VI.

Oh, wait, that was a long time ago.

OK, then, Cardinal Cody.

96 posted on 10/28/2007 6:16:25 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: pinochet

Thank you for your concern that our behavioral standards may be lowered. I am grateful that the RCC faithful are budgeting time to be concerned about other denominations, given the situations that exist inside the RCC itself.

I am further grateful to be in a denomination that has much more local control of who’s in the pulpit, and are able to remove problem pastors, and deal with unrepentant members much more effectively than the RCC laypeople and clergy can.

If you read my explanations, you’d see that mature/growing Christians are more than well aware of their own shortcomings. We are faced with them every day. We have to deal with them every day, just like any other Christian, regardless of denomination. I would echo the comment of a prior poster saying simply, do not confuse our confidence in our salvation, which is a promise from God so we can keep on running the good race without fear of eternal death, with antinomianism. They are not the same thing.

Now of course there are people who may very well believe “I’m saved, now I can keep doing whatever the heck I want,” but that is antinomianism and that is not what protestants believe. It was disproven by Paul and dicredited by many church fathers over the years.

You can’t force people to mature spiritually by taking the Gospel and adding the Law to it, by making them have to confess to a priest for pardon, by making them do penances of different things. By saying the rosary a number of times to finally attain forgiveness of the Gospel by following ‘the law’. It is not your place to determine who is maturing in Christ at a fast enough pace, or if your brother is sufficiently repentant enough by doing x, y, and z, and then and only then will the Gospel ‘work’ for him. That is not biblical. It is not bad to suggest things to someone who is asking, what can I do to make things better? But not to hold the Gospel hostage by attaching the law to it. The Law condemns. The Gospel saves. The Law is not merciful. The Gospel is a free gift solely of the love and mercy of God. The two are not to be mingled.

You don’t put people under your thumb and pressure them to do the right thing. That is what the RCC does by preaching and teaching “faith plus good works” saves you. You don’t do enough good works, in someone’s opinion, and you risk losing your salvation. That is not how God works, for that is why He gives people free will, to see what we will do, uncoerced, for Him. As we mature in Christ, and all Christians do - but perhaps not at the rate you may think is appropriate - we want to live a more Christ-like life. We work to better ourselves. Not out of FEAR of LOSING salvation, but out of CONFIDENCE we HAVE salvation because of God’s promises He has made to us, those who believe in what His son Jesus Christ has done for us already.


167 posted on 10/28/2007 8:12:28 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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