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To: Campion
Talking to the dead for any purpose is condemned by scripture, not just fortune telling.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. I Timothy 2:5 (not the saints)

And you are purposefully twisting Matthew 22:32 to meet your agenda. They are dead in their body and their spirits are moved to Heaven or Hades. Talking to the dead is witchcraft.

That is why Saul got in serious trouble with God when he tried to call up Samuel.

As for Tolkien, I can pick whatever name I want as long as it's not taken by anyone else. If it's so important to you, why didn't you take it when you had the chance? I like him for his authorship, not his religion.

32 posted on 10/25/2007 11:56:58 AM PDT by Tolkien (There are things more important than Peace. Freedom being one of those.)
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To: Tolkien
Talking to the dead for any purpose is condemned by scripture

Where? It says "necromancy," not "talking to the dead for any purpose".

Was Jesus sinning at the Transfiguration?

And you are purposefully twisting Matthew 22:32 to meet your agenda.

And you're ignoring it to meet yours.

34 posted on 10/25/2007 12:00:04 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Tolkien
That is why Saul got in serious trouble with God when he tried to call up Samuel

BTW, Saul clearly wanted his fortune told. He was also going through a witch.

Neither issue applies to Catholics asking for the prayers of the saints.

35 posted on 10/25/2007 12:01:33 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Tolkien
Ha! Jesus spoke to people you evidently consider to be dead: Moses and Elijah:

Matthew 17:3
And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.

"Have you not read what was said to you by God: 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living." And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching." (Matthew 22:31-33)

I think the problem here is that you are looking at those who have passed away in a natural or fleshly way, as if they were dead; whereas as Christ has plainly shown us, they are living.

Do you doubt that they are alive in Christ? Do you doubt that we are alive in Christ? And if they and we are alive in Him, can't we not pray together in Him as one living body, in the living Christ?

In fact, this is the key to all of it:

Romans 12:5
so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:12
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

39 posted on 10/25/2007 12:23:50 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: Tolkien

Talking to the dead is doing what Christ did. Is He a witch?


41 posted on 10/25/2007 12:25:10 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: Tolkien; Campion
Talking to the dead for any purpose is condemned by scripture, not just fortune telling.

The practice of conjuring up spirits, and asking a servant of God to pray for you is quite different and this should be obvious to most people. Let me ask you a question. Do you think Jesus is an abomination to the Lord? Jesus conversed with the Dead. No I don’t mean instances when he raised Jairus’daughter from the dead by saying, “little girl arise.”(Mark 5:41) or when he raised his friend Lazarus from the dead by shouting “Lazarus come forth” (John 11:44). I’m talking about the time He chatted with Moses and Elias at the Transfiguration.

Mark 9:4
And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Elias is the Greek form of the name Elijah that translators used in the KJV of the New Testament if you aren’t sure who Elias is. The KJV of the Bible is the only version that uses Elias all others use Elijah. Now we know that according to Scripture Elijah was carried away in a fiery chariot. There is no evidence in scripture that tells us he died so we won’t even discuss him. But Scripture not only tells us that Moses died but we are even told his age at his death.


48 posted on 10/25/2007 12:34:21 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Tolkien
As for Tolkien, I can pick whatever name I want as long as it's not taken by anyone else. If it's so important to you, why didn't you take it when you had the chance? I like him for his authorship, not his religion.

"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."
-J.R.R. Tolkien

70 posted on 10/25/2007 1:21:58 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Tolkien
Talking to the dead for any purpose is condemned by scripture, not just fortune telling.

A Saint or Angel is dead?

159 posted on 10/25/2007 7:27:23 PM PDT by frogjerk
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To: Tolkien
Talking to the dead for any purpose is condemned by scripture, not just fortune telling.

The Saints and Angels are not dead.

162 posted on 10/25/2007 7:31:14 PM PDT by frogjerk
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