Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
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The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
As you pointed out above Miriam would sinshalom b'shem Yah'shua
if she were not to have sex with Joseph her husband.
Thank you.
Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.
Isaiah 48:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.
= = = =
INDEED!
ITTM
INDEED TO THE MAX
So WHY is it NECESSARY for Mary to remain a perpetual virgin ? If marriage and sex are holy, why can Mary only be loved and honored if she never had sex?
= = =
INDEED.
It’s only “NECESSARY”
for the selfish, political vain glorious power mongering of humans so easily addicted to ritual, bureaucracy, idolatry of every sort etc. etc.
Oh, for crying out loud. What a drive-by comment.
Actually a string of such dogmas, “doctrines” of man . . . of . . .
have come across for years as
a kind of “brilliant idea” “drive by” power mongeing poltical straegy of the RC politicos many centuries ago.
Guess they’d have been driving donkeys . . . but similar attitudes and concoctions.
Also, what happened to Mary and Joseph's other children, Jesus's younger brothers and sisters who often followed him around when he was preaching? (Matt. 12:46; Matt. 13:55; Mark 3:31; Mark 6:3; Luke 8:19; Galatians 1:19)The Bible says James was the brother of Jesus. When the names of His brothers are listed, Jesus always comes first, indicating He was the firstborn, not the ONLY born Son of Mary...why wouldn't Scripture simply say, the "ONLY born Son of Mary"? And how could she remain a virgin after He was born? Why would she be barren for the rest of her life when Jewish families loved children?
There you go again . . . obliterating a doctrine of demons with the clear simple truth of Scripture. WELL DONE.
His body has stopped functioning, but that is beside the point.
Does the Book of Revelation show deceased Christians alive?
The only recorded request brought by a Queen Mother to a King in all of the history of Judah was that of Queen Bathsheba on behalf of Adonijah to King Solomon -- and it resulted in the death of Adonijah [I Kings 2:25]. Take a lesson --
Having Statues is not idolatry. http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/statues_in_church.htm.
I would tell you here is an example of Idolatry. As a Christian working for an organization such as Planned Parenthood for money. Abortion goes against God yet that person works there for money. Seek God first. If that person understood this they would realize they are seeking money (idol that is worshiped today)and not seeking God first. Or a lawyer that is screwing people for money he is committing idolatry. The Golden Calf was a symbol of Idolatry. There are many other forms. Sex can be one as well.
I find it amazing that you a lay person argue with a set of church beliefs that have been held for over 2000 years. You haven’t even address the words of Martin Luther about Mary. Even he was devoted to Mary. You seem to ignore this. Before the reformation in 1500s there were no protestants. EVERYONE was Catholic. There were no books and not many could read so everyone went to church to read the Bible.
The Catholic Church put together the Bible in the first place. Why would they put together the something that disputes their beliefs. When you read the Bible you can’t just read it in plain English. You have to understand the times, the Kingdom of Juda and the way things were explained.
For example does “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24.” Is the eye of the needle a physical needle or perhaps Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle’s Eye, that doorway was built like the eye of a needle and so low that a camel could only pass if it entered kneeling and unencumbered with baggage.
The ‘Bible Alone’ wasn’t even until that time of reformations. But guess what? Still no one had their own Bibles. Books were for rich people. A lot couldn’t read. They still had to go to Church to have it interpreted for them.
29Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over to this chariot and join it.” 30So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. He asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31He replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to get in and sit beside him. Acts 29-31.
Did you know Luther wanted to throw out the Apocalypse? If he did you protestants would have nothing to talk about. As for protestant beliefs The Rapture belief started lass than 150 years ago. Where is that in the bible?
As for John the Baptist
‘I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.’ “ (Lk 7:28).
John only had original sin. Only Jesus the people in Heaven, and Mary were greater than he.
The phrase “born of woman” means born with original sin otherwise Jesus would fall into that category because He has a human Mother.
How was John the Baptist able to avoid all sin? Sacred Scripture tells us the words of the angel who spoke to Zechariah about his future son (John the Baptist). “ ‘…he will be great before the Lord…and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.” (Lk 1:15). John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born, when he was a child in his mother Elizabeth’s womb.
When was John the Baptist filled with the Holy Spirit? Sacred Scripture describes the visit of the Virgin Mary to Elizabeth. “And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit….” (Lk 1:41). When Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, so too was the child within her womb filled with the Holy Spirit. At that time, the child Jesus was in the womb of the Virgin Mary, and John the Baptist was in the womb of Elizabeth. Thus, it was through Jesus, present in the Virgin Mary’s womb, that the Holy Spirit was sent upon Elizabeth and upon John the Baptist.
Go read about the First Fruits. The Bible clearly states these first Christians were free on sin.
Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.” (Rev 14:1-5).
Just because it was the only recorded one doesn’t mean many requests didn’t happen. That was the role of the Queen Mother to bring requests to the King.
Just because it isn’t written didn’t mean it didn’t happen.
“There were also a great number of other signs which Jesus performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book.”
The Book of Esther is rich with typological, allegorical and analogical references to a Queen interceding with the king to save her people.
I regret that I only have a limited number of hours on the weekends to explain this at length. By next weekend, this thread will be in the misty flats somewhere.
Perhaps I can come back for a few minutes later this morning to offer some significant quotes from that Book of Esther.
The Book of Matthew says in Chapter 1, verse 24 says:
"And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took her as his wife,"
verse 25 continues,"and he kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus." NASB (My emphasis on 'until')
'Until' implies to me that eventually, after Jesus was born, that Joseph and Mary 'knew each other in the Biblical way' the way normal husbands and wives do in a marriage. Joseph apparently loved Mary greatly, so much so that he put his life on the line several times for her and the baby she carried. I don't understand why he would be punished with a wife in a name only after all they'd been through?
Also, what happened to Mary and Joseph's other children, Jesus' younger brothers and sisters who often followed him around when he was preaching? (Matt. 12:46; Matt. 13:55; Mark 3:31; Mark 6:3; Luke 8:19; Galatians 1:19)The Bible says James was the brother of Jesus. When the names of His brothers are listed, Jesus always comes first, indicating He was the firstborn, not the ONLY born Son of Mary...why wouldn't Scripture simply say, the "ONLY born Son of Mary"? And how could she remain a virgin after He was born? Why would she be barren for the rest of her life when Jewish families loved children? :-(
785 posted on 10/27/2007 11:47:46 PM MDT by pillut48
As ETH pointed out above, if Miriam did not have sex with her husband, she would be committing a SIN.
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
LOL.
Please don’t take this wrong, I am really trying to understand the doctrine and beliefs here—you go with Mary in prayers to have her as a ‘buffer’ between you and Jesus? Wouldn’t that put Mary in the role of High Priest/ess, then? I believe that Jesus Himself holds that role (’after Mechelzidek’) and when He died on the cross, the veil in the Temple was torn in two, signifying that there was no longer a need for anyone to come between man (all of humankind throughout the ages) and God because of Jesus’s sacrifice. Why do Catholics need a ‘buffer’ that can ‘stay His fury’?
lol. That kind of logic results in a world of confusion, contradiction, fantasy, error and insignificance.
The word of God tells us exactly what we need to know of God and life and salvation. If it's not in Scripture, it's not for us to know.
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book" -- Rev. 22:18
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." -- Deuteronomy 4:2
Especially considering Christ's very purpose as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was to pay for the sins of His flock once, in full, forever.
Buffer, schmuffer. Those who believe in Jesus Christ have been acquitted of their sins by Christ on the cross.
"She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet." -- Proverbs 31:21
You are comparing praying to Jesus for knowledge to using a ouija board? To whom do YOU pray for knowledge?
To imagine saints in heaven interact with humans on earth is a position that leads to all sorts of errors and ultimately keeps men from seeking the only mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus.
It should be enough for us to know our loved ones are happy in the arms of the Lord. Like David, we are comforted by the fact we will see them again. We shouldn't be looking for more.
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